Why are movies so damn dynamic? (this is not a rant)

[Zeppelin4Life]

Cuz I like it. Next time you go to a movie, listen to how dynamic everything is. I mean everything. It makes it sound huge too. Does anyone know what kindof compression is typical for movies? It does't seem like much. I just noticed this

[brew]

Cuz I like it. Next time you go to a movie, listen to how dynamic everything is. I mean everything. It makes it sound huge too. Does anyone know what kindof compression is typical for movies? It does't seem like much. I just noticed this

ah, because movies are mixed to a defined monitor level standard! something the music industry would consider if sonic quality was a concern. that's why movies are consistently good sound and dynamic-wise. you can read all about it on our webpage and in bob's book...

[Slider]

For emotional impact usually.
Theaters are a more controlled listening environment, so they can use dynamics for an effect.
It seems a bit much sometimes when you get it home on a DVD with no adjustments done in the mastering.
But it's effective.

[thethingwiththestuff]

hey, i've heard pros complain about over-compressed movies, as well. specifically, i remember someone talking abut the fugitive with harrison ford. the last time i saw that movie i sure as hell didnt know what compression was, but this guy said that that giant train crash had absolutely no impact cause it was just as loud as any conversation.

[maz]

yeah it's nice except at home when I'm always reaching for the remote. It's great if you have a sweet home theatre setup and can just crank movies, but not so great just watching them on a regular tv.

[squizo]

even with a bad-ass home theatre system ....i find myself still riding the damn remote.... the music seems to be overwhelmingly loud and the dialog quiet in alot of DVDs i watch now...its quite annoying .... if you ride faders all day ...why the hell would you want to ride a volume control while you watch a damn movie trying to relax!! i almost prefer VHS still for this reason

ALTHOUGH

theatre sound especially when its pumped up in a nice high performane suburban theatre googleplex ....is fucking wickedly cool

so i kind of turned this into a rant,
once again cheers to zep4life for another thread...



stay gold ponyboy

[underthebigtree]

In my opinion, movies are still not as dynamic as they should be, nor as many mixers would like them to be. On some action films, there is indeed pressure from directors to make everything sound huge, which of course means that nothing sounds huge as a result. But it does have the effect of making people's ears hurt when they see the film in a properly calibrated theatre.

Which brings us to theater reference level. THX was a company that evolved simply to try to bring reference calibration to theaters, so that the audience can experience the film as the mixer intended it. Some theaters follow this, some don't. I recently saw Polar Express at a theater that had the volume set far too quiet - at least 8-10 db. When I told the manager that the film was too quiet, he said that they turn it down so the train doesn't scare the kids. Unfortunately, this makes some of the dialog, and most of the foley inaudible.

Finally, on the topic of DVD mixes: Most major film mixes book an extra 5 days on a smaller stage to do a home theater mix. In the cases that I know about, this mix generally has less dynamic range than the theater mix, so that people without great home theater systems can still hear the quiet stuff.

[jmiller]

if you ride faders all day ...why the hell would you want to ride a volume control while you watch a damn movie trying to relax!!

This is why I want a remote with a fader on it.

It is kinda distracting at home, especially at night or in an apartment where you have to be consciensious of noise. They always mix the FX way louder than the dialog, so when someone's talking you gotta turn the tv up way loud, then someone drops a gum drop on a goose feather down pillow and you get this loud, 6 channel burst of sound.

While where on the subject, am I the only one who's getting a little tired of the "montage" scenes in movies? You know, at some dramatic moment, they cue some annoying song that's not part of the score while the happy couple goes frolicking around town, talking to eachother but with no audible dialog?

I've sat in on a few scoring sessions lately. They're pretty cool. They're also really hectic.

[soundguy]

you can put a stereo limiter on your tv if its a big issue, people do this.

you guys have no clue how compressed dialogue is with most features. The stuff I hand production at the end of the day is most certianly NOT the stuff that comes out of the speakers at the theaters, dont kid yourself, the shit gets compressed intensely. As does the score. As does the effects. What you are mistaking for "dynamics" is severe difference in level. Your ears get used to the level the dialogue is played at so when the writers who failed to write something emotive and the actors who failed to act something emotive prompt the stage mixer to fade up the horrid strings so all the girls cry at the right moment, they make that WAY louder than the dialogue. Modern scores are awfully comprressed for classical music, especially if there is piano in it, they just mix it loud. Same for your explosions and gun shots and the mud foley of arnold covering himself so the predator wont find him.

If there were real dynamics, when actors shouted, thered be a level change and there isnt. Go watch the village with horrible J Phoenix whsipering through the whole fucking movie to see how loud whispered dialogue can be. If scores werent compressed, youd have a much better idea of what the scoring stage sounded like at the level modern scores are played at, but you dont, or at least I cannt ever pick out the sound of the warner brothers scoring stage when I watch a movie, but to stand inside that stage, the sound in the room is unforgettable. Maybe Im just not listening closely enough.

I wouldnt describe modern movies as dynamic whatsoever. Everything is limited, it just sits at its own determined level, so and so dB lower relative to the loudest thing in the movie, and thats what you structure when you sit at the mix stage. A band called Black Sabbath figured this out eons ago when they realized that if you leave the master fader a few dB down and then crank it to unity 2 minutes into war pigs, a really cool things happens, your record gets louder, same thing.

dave

[Professor]

Well Dave pretty much beat me to it, though I might be a slight bit more gentle. I think that the movies are indeed dynamic, though the individual sounds involved are certainly not. As Dave explained, the levels of the component sounds, dialog, foley, scoring, etc. are usually squashed pretty flat, and then the mix engineer sets the levels. And of course, the main reason they are so much more dynamic overall than a rock and roll song, is because there is a significant difference in the length of a movie vs. a song. And the movie has to change locations and moods and characters, while a rock song is generally going to stay pretty consistent throughout - unless it also changes moods and characters, and then it's probably pretty dynamic.

-J

[twitchmonitor]

yeah it's nice except at home when I'm always reaching for the remote. It's great if you have a sweet home theatre setup and can just crank movies, but not so great just watching them on a regular tv.

Amen!

[The Real MC]

When I first started buying DVDs I quickly got tired of riding the volume on my remote. The dynamics of movies is really really annoying, quiet as a mouse dialogue followed by ear-splitting explosions or traffic noise. TOO MUCH! Not to mention that I lived in an apartment and my neighbors don't always want the noise.

I knew it was a matter of time before the volume buttons would wear out on the remote. So I found a used Alesis Nanocomp for $50 and patched it between the DVD player and my stereo system. A cheap solution that works great.

Check your DVD player manual, it may have compression built in but under another name (called "DRC=dynamic range control" on my Hitachi). Unfortunately it only worked with DVDs encoded with Dolby Digital recording and it had no adjustments whatsoever over threshold, attack/release time, etc. The Nanocomp sounded better and it worked for all DVDs.

I left the Nanocomp with my parents for a few weeks and they want one for their TV now. They are great for taming those damn commercials that blast at 6dB above the show.

[kenl666]

[quote="squizo"]even with a bad-ass home theatre system ....i find myself still riding the damn remote.... the music seems to be overwhelmingly loud and the dialog quiet in alot of DVDs i watch now...its quite annoying .... if you ride faders all day ...why the hell would you want to ride a volume control while you watch a damn movie trying to relax!! i
[/quote]

Glad I'm not the only one. I'm sure it's my hearing that's getting worse, I have a real problem with quiet dialog that I can't hear over the music bed.

I stopped watching the XFiles before it ended cuz I couldn't understand what the fuck Duchovney was always mumbling, you'd think a Princeton AND Yale graduate could at least ENUNCIATE but apparently I'm asking too much, just look at the smirking chimp that's running the country into the ground for an example of higher education...

er, sorry, got off on a tanget there...

I finally got a home theatre system, the center channel helps a bit, I'm still ironing out the balance.

[Wilkesin]

if you ride faders all day ...why the hell would you want to ride a volume control while you watch a damn movie trying to relax!!

While where on the subject, am I the only one who's getting a little tired of the "montage" scenes in movies? You know, at some dramatic moment, they cue some annoying song that's not part of the score while the happy couple goes frolicking around town, talking to eachother but with no audible dialog?

I'm guessing you havent seen Team America: World Police yet.

[kdarr]

if you ride faders all day ...why the hell would you want to ride a volume control while you watch a damn movie trying to relax!!

While where on the subject, am I the only one who's getting a little tired of the "montage" scenes in movies? You know, at some dramatic moment, they cue some annoying song that's not part of the score while the happy couple goes frolicking around town, talking to eachother but with no audible dialog?

I'm guessing you havent seen Team America: World Police yet.

"Even Rocky had a montage!"

Ah yes, the Parker/Stone team absolutely LOVE the montage as a running gag.

My personal favorite is the Jimmy Vollmer sports training sequence in the Special Olympics episode of South Park. The 80's rock "Eye of the Tiger" send-up is just great.

"Take it to the limiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!"

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