Peculiar recording situation

[crtdot]

Hi, all. Ye Tapeop Gods, I am unworthy to dare post here but here I go.

I work at a yoga studio. We teach a style that requires the room to be 95 degrees. It gets hot, sticky and sweaty reall quick. Don't even ask me about smells.

My teacher does alot of classes all over the country and we record them for selling later. He tends to walk around the room, thus necessitating a remote recording setup on his person. MD and a lavalier (sp?) on a hip belt. Right now we record them straight to MD, but I have heard people say the quality is just a step above total ass. The mic we use is a simple one, a sony I believe. Or it may also be a SHure headset unit. I honestly haven't seen it up close. The recordings are often hissy and all about the high end.

I am wondering what you all would recommend for recording gear/methods. Are ther anyh mics that can deliver decent fidelity in such a humid environment hostile to electronics? I am reminded of Mickey hart's notes on recording Gamelan in Bali and Indonesia, but liek I said, the boss lieks to move around.

Any thoughts would be great. I love you.

[joel hamilton]

Get a better lav, and a good pre, and some kind of compressor. Expansion could help you get up above the room noise...I recorded a guy boxing and speaking once, and we just used a really good lav, and a good pre. if the teacher is recording, cant he chill a little on running around the room? I also had a fixed mic on a boom above the guy and that helped a LOT, but was obviously really roomy...

Made it sound less like a helicopter pilot though, and more like a person.

[soundguy]

people spend careers trying to get a usable sound from a lav, I know I have.

You basically have four sets of options:

a) hire a guy to record the thing who knows what he's doing and can provide a wireless setup for the zen master to walk around with. This will yield your best results if you hire the right person.

b) beladen the dude with really high end portable gear that he can walk around the room with but probably wont be able to do yoga with. $$$$$$

c) sit his ass in a chair and stick a cheap mic in front of him and record on a cheap computer setup or whatever, and if you are in control of it it might be better.

The humidity isnt going to really effect you too much for dialogue unless you are using certain condensers, you for instance probably do not want to be using schoeps mics, sennheisers however will practically work underwater.

dave

[crtdot]

Hey, thank you Joel! BTW, I loved the article on your studio in The BIble - I mean, Tapeop.

Seriously, he moves around to demo poses and to asssist people in poses. I like the idea of getting the mobile setup together. The thing is, however, the setup neeeds to be easy to use by non-professionals. Kind of plug and play. I am hoping for some mic and recording media solution that will save the day, but I doubt that'll happen.

If only they'd pay for me to fly around and record him, then everything'd be irie. However, that ain't in the cards.

Thanks for your help!

p.s. And how many Leland Palmer look-alike competitions has tony won, anyway? hardeeharhahr.

Get a better lav, and a good pre, and some kind of compressor. Expansion could help you get up above the room noise...I recorded a guy boxing and speaking once, and we just used a really good lav, and a good pre. if the teacher is recording, cant he chill a little on running around the room? I also had a fixed mic on a boom above the guy and that helped a LOT, but was obviously really roomy...

Made it sound less like a helicopter pilot though, and more like a person.

[joel hamilton]

I would listen to Dave (Soundguy) on this one. He does this kind of stuff a LOT.

I would ask him if I had some kind of jogging health nut to record...

[I'm Painting Again]

check out good wireless lav(s) ($$$) a shure intelliMix and a
Sony CDR-W66..it will provide a decent level of quality and functionallity..

[crtdot]

Well, since he won't see this, I can say honestly that he won't spring for most of these as he's cheap. Which is whhy I have two jobs. But I love my yoga!

I know he's done some recordings where it's just been him seated and being recorded "properly." But these situations are not usually ideal for proper recording.

people spend careers trying to get a usable sound from a lav, I know I have.

You basically have four sets of options:

a) hire a guy to record the thing who knows what he's doing and can provide a wireless setup for the zen master to walk around with. This will yield your best results if you hire the right person.

b) beladen the dude with really high end portable gear that he can walk around the room with but probably wont be able to do yoga with. $$$$$$

c) sit his ass in a chair and stick a cheap mic in front of him and record on a cheap computer setup or whatever, and if you are in control of it it might be better.

The humidity isnt going to really effect you too much for dialogue unless you are using certain condensers, you for instance probably do not want to be using schoeps mics, sennheisers however will practically work underwater.

dave

[Professor]

Ah yes, the overly cheap guys that charge lots of money to attend their demonstrations and certainly aren't afraid to charge for the recording.

Would I be going out on a limb here if I guessed that he wants it to sound clean and professional, but doesn't want the cost to exceed a couple hundred bucks at the very most? I don't mean to pick on the guy - it's just that I know the type fairly well since I used to try to sell them pro-audio gear in Colorado.

My guess is that you are going to end up staying with the mini-disc as your recording medium. Anything larger would be too big to carry and would thus necessitate a wireless mic. And since he travels, the wireless would need to UHF and preferably have selectable frequencies - but since those are going to start in the $500 range, they're probably not ever going to happen.
- If you want to try a different microphone, you might consider one of two 'headworn' mics from Audio Technica, the ATM-73a or the ATM-75. Both use a little beltback similar to a wireless transmitter, but it holds a 9v battery for phantom power and has an XLR output. You can then get an XLR to 1/8" adapter cable (Hosa makes them cheap) and plug that into a nice better-quality Sony MD recorder. But please, don't be tempted by the slightly cheaper 'Pro 8HE' mic from Audio Technica because the mic for that is permanently attached to the belt-pack, so if the humidity does become an issue, the whole thing must be replaced, while the other models can replace the microphones, even with other brands.
- AT also makes similar mics with lavalier elements instead of headsets, and those will give a slightly better sense of the room and will capture more dialog with the participants. Look at the AT898 or AT899.

If you can convince him to go with a wireless transmitter, then there would be less for him to carry, and someone else could watch the recording levels and mark tracks as appropriate on any number of different recording mediums. CDR would be an obvious choice since those could more easily be dumped into a computer for later editing, and Marantz makes a nice little portable unit.

As for the sound quality, if he doesn't want to pay money to fix it at the source, then he could try to have it mastered later - but that will likely cost more.

-Jeremy

[crtdot]

Yeah, he is the client who wants the champagne sound foor the beer budget.

I believe he's using the Shure headset already. I am not sure exactly how it is wired in with the lav. I guess it's separate, so he wears the lav and then he also wears the headset.

[sigh] I guess this is the plight mmost of you guys face. The client knows not yet knows it all. I suppose he's resigned to it sounding like isht.

Ah yes, the overly cheap guys that charge lots of money to attend their demonstrations and certainly aren't afraid to charge for the recording.

Would I be going out on a limb here if I guessed that he wants it to sound clean and professional, but doesn't want the cost to exceed a couple hundred bucks at the very most? I don't mean to pick on the guy - it's just that I know the type fairly well since I used to try to sell them pro-audio gear in Colorado.

My guess is that you are going to end up staying with the mini-disc as your recording medium. Anything larger would be too big to carry and would thus necessitate a wireless mic. And since he travels, the wireless would need to UHF and preferably have selectable frequencies - but since those are going to start in the $500 range, they're probably not ever going to happen.
- If you want to try a different microphone, you might consider one of two 'headworn' mics from Audio Technica, the ATM-73a or the ATM-75. Both use a little beltback similar to a wireless transmitter, but it holds a 9v battery for phantom power and has an XLR output. You can then get an XLR to 1/8" adapter cable (Hosa makes them cheap) and plug that into a nice better-quality Sony MD recorder. But please, don't be tempted by the slightly cheaper 'Pro 8HE' mic from Audio Technica because the mic for that is permanently attached to the belt-pack, so if the humidity does become an issue, the whole thing must be replaced, while the other models can replace the microphones, even with other brands.
- AT also makes similar mics with lavalier elements instead of headsets, and those will give a slightly better sense of the room and will capture more dialog with the participants. Look at the AT898 or AT899.

If you can convince him to go with a wireless transmitter, then there would be less for him to carry, and someone else could watch the recording levels and mark tracks as appropriate on any number of different recording mediums. CDR would be an obvious choice since those could more easily be dumped into a computer for later editing, and Marantz makes a nice little portable unit.

As for the sound quality, if he doesn't want to pay money to fix it at the source, then he could try to have it mastered later - but that will likely cost more.

-Jeremy

[joeysimms]

Why not try hanging 4 of those conference mics from the ceiling, roughly covering each quadrant of the room? How bad is the noise from outside?

[crtdot]

That's a good point.

I guess what I need ot reiterate is that I, who has some small idea about recording techniques, am not going to be on the scene to set up. SO it has to be easily portable and monkey-ready foolproof.

Basically, one of his assitants has to be able to put it together. And since he's traveling all over to many different spaces, each room will be diffrent and thus each one will present their own unique circumstances.

Why not try hanging 4 of those conference mics from the ceiling, roughly covering each quadrant of the room? How bad is the noise from outside?

[joeysimms]

My example was based on oone of the offices at my job, where they plan to record some focus groups. The 4 mics are set spaced equally from one another, and within each quadrant. Route through a 4 channel mixer, have someone walk around and talk a bunch. Set your levels, then set your recording machine's level from the set mixer's mono output, spread to both channels.

[crtdot]

THIS would be ideal for recording in our studio. Way cool. But we also have heaters that make a shitload of noise. How do I cancel that out? In matering or post production?

My example was based on oone of the offices at my job, where they plan to record some focus groups. The 4 mics are set spaced equally from one another, and within each quadrant. Route through a 4 channel mixer, have someone walk around and talk a bunch. Set your levels, then set your recording machine's level from the set mixer's mono output, spread to both channels.

[bobbydj]

Good use of the word "quadrant" there. It made you sound very knowledgeable.

[joeysimms]

THIS would be ideal for recording in our studio. Way cool. But we also have heaters that make a shitload of noise. How do I cancel that out? In matering or post production?

I was under the impression that the room is pre-heated.. otherwise, you'd think people would have a hard time hearing the guy speak. In that case, you'd really have to try it and see how much heater noise ends up in the mix. I wouldn't count on post-production or mastering to fix anything.