Advice needed on big band recording in rehearsal space

[Papillon_Irl]

Ok, I've done the search and there is some useful advice here about recording big band type music, but here's a slightly different scenario.

I will be recording the band here:

www.rubystudios.net

There are a good few rehearsal rooms here, which I will have access to. There is a control room setup already. All rooms have a ceiling height of just over eight foot.

I do FOH for these guys so I know what to expect.

Four piece trumpet section
Four piece bone section
Five peice sax section

V. Good electric bass player
V. good drummer
Good guitar player (Ess w/Twin)
Excellent piano/organ player (no piano available here though, will be using a module.

Various vocalists

I figure I will use the largest room in the place, which happens to be the lounge area (the one with the pool table in the pictures). I plan to record rhythm section and brass parts together, and overdub vocals and solos.

Mic's available:

AKG C414 B-ULS ( x 2)
AKG C1000 ( x 2 )
MXL 603s (Stereo pair)
Sennheiser MD421-U5
Sennheiser e602
Sennheiser e604
Sennheiser e609
Shure/Unidyne III ( x 2 )
Shure Beta 58 (x2)
Shure SM58 ( x2 )
Shure SM57 ( x2 )
Shure KSM32
Shure KSM44
Studio Projects C1
Behringer ECM8000 ( x 2 )
Beyerdynamic M400

The keyboard player, bass player, and guitar player will be playing through their respective amps.

The area I'm thinking about tracking in is about 18ft X 25ft X 8.5 ft.

My main worry is capturing a good/balanced brass sound without to much bleed. I'm not sure which tracks they are doing yet, but I think they will probably be standards. They also do newer seventies stuff like Stevie Wonder etc.

As you can see, individual micing of brass intruments is not an option. When I do front of house, I normally use 1 mic to every 2 brass instruments, but I wonder will this create a phasey mess in here with the band so close to each other, and guitar/keyboard amps being used.

And on top of that, this has to be put down to 10 channels !


Anyone in the mood for sharing some thoughts on this ?


Cheers,

Nathan

[joelpatterson]

Very detailed post, but did you say the rooms are only eight feet high?

As in from the floor you go eight feet up and then there's acoustical tile or sheetrock or something?

I did a horn-based band in a room with a low ceiling like that, and there was a squeezy-squashedly problem with the density of all the reflection that ruined everything. Don't horns need a whole room to bloom, and tail off somehow? The echoes of the horns need to get lost in the shadows, that's why a saxophone in the city streets is so primal and evocative. 'Course you don't want a Dixieland jazz band wandering around in Manhattan after midnight. But you don't want to fish in an aquarium, either.

Good luck, I'd say with all the gear you will do more than fine, me I would say try to find some kind of bigger space.

[bigtoe]

that sounds like a rad ass session.

i'd mic all the horns if necessary...sub them down to stereo while tracking...no biggie...if you give your self a bit of time (and since you know them already - this shouldn't be hard to get) it's really not hard.

i'd set the rhythm section up facing the horn section...use the crop of shure dynamics on the horns to start.

"My main worry is capturing a good/balanced brass sound without to much bleed."

where bleed? like, what are you worried about bleeding in to what? use the bleed.

good luck...sounds like great fun.

MIke

[Papillon_Irl]

Very detailed post, but did you say the rooms are only eight feet high?

As in from the floor you go eight feet up and then there's acoustical tile or sheetrock or something?

I did a horn-based band in a room with a low ceiling like that, and there was a squeezy-squashedly problem with the density of all the reflection that ruined everything. Don't horns need a whole room to bloom, and tail off somehow? The echoes of the horns need to get lost in the shadows, that's why a saxophone in the city streets is so primal and evocative. 'Course you don't want a Dixieland jazz band wandering around in Manhattan after midnight. But you don't want to fish in an aquarium, either.

Good luck, I'd say with all the gear you will do more than fine, me I would say try to find some kind of bigger space.

Interesting, the experience you described is exactly what I was worried about... did you close-mic brass section members, or use more of a traditional technique ?

I have to use this building, for silly reasons that I won't talk about here, so changing rooms is not an option for this session.

Cheers,

Nathan

[Papillon_Irl]

that sounds like a rad ass session.

i'd mic all the horns if necessary...sub them down to stereo while tracking...no biggie...if you give your self a bit of time (and since you know them already - this shouldn't be hard to get) it's really not hard.

i'd set the rhythm section up facing the horn section...use the crop of shure dynamics on the horns to start.

"My main worry is capturing a good/balanced brass sound without to much bleed."

where bleed? like, what are you worried about bleeding in to what? use the bleed.

good luck...sounds like great fun.

MIke

Yeah, if I used a tradition type brass section micing technique, I was worried about the bleed from things like the keyboard players sh*tty amp which he insists on having too loud all the time. Great jazz player, but tours with some rock outfits, hearing is shot a bit I think.

Close micing with the sections facing each other seems like a good idea to me...I can ride the faders when the trumpets use the mutes... Also it will suit as the keyboard player is the band leader.

Actually, maybe it would be an idea to close mic/di everything and spend the extra time choosing a good place for one room mic...

Cheers,

Nathan

[joelpatterson]

Nathan,

Yes, I'd err on the side of close-micing. I tried to mic "sections" and with all the bleed from the drumkit and bass amp and piano wash and the walls and the ceiling it was blur city. And hopefully there's some corner where a room mic could give you something worthwhile.

You're a brave man!