Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

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MusicMan
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Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by MusicMan » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:22 am

I wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions (other than to play lighter on the hi-hats) on how to get less hi hat in your mics when recording drums. I have very little experience recording drums....this is why I ask. I figure there are a lot of people on here with a ton of experience in doing this and could help me out.

I do not mic the hi hats close at all and not even the snare for that matter. But still seem to get a lot of hit hat. I have Paiste Hi-Hat cymbals.

I like to use only 2 or 3 mics as overheads or a room mic. I am using KM 84's and a Soundelux U195.

For the song I am working on now I am trying to get an older drum sound ie: early Rolling Stones where the drums are not so defined/clear but sit back in the mix more and the hi hats are just barely there but still hearing the snare and kick.

What EQ could I be cutting when tracking to get rid of some hi hats?

Any other suggestions/techniques?

Thanks, Mark.

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by nacho459 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:42 am

I have this problem every so often. Usually with drummers who play everything really hard! Here are some ways I've avoided this.

1) If you're using condenser mics as overheads try to place my them so they tilt away from the hats. Or place the overheads really tight so they primarily pick up the crashes, ride, etc. and then use room mics to pick up a more full kit sound.

2) Try using ribbon mics as overheads

3) Try using SM57's as overheads (this really works especially for punk bands with bad sounding cymbals)

4) Try the "British" set up and place your "overheads" behind the kit about 2' off the ground, 6' apart and 2' back from the kit.

MusicMan
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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by MusicMan » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:56 am

Thanks for the suggestions.

I was wondering that about ribbon mics. I don't have any but it seems they are used a lot as drum overheads. I need to get one. But in the meantime I will try your other suggestions.

thanks again,

Mark.

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by nacho459 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:21 am

Awe man, You should have got in on the group buy. Who knows maybe there'll be another one.

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by Shawn Simmons » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:34 am

Use different hi-hats. I've got a cool, cheap set of hi-hat cymbals that work great. They are dark and surprisingly, don't hardly show up in the overheads at all. If I pull the hat track down, guess what? The hat disappears! Go find yourself some different hats and you'll be set.

shawn

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by syrupcore » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:42 am


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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:46 am

Mark, I've used a physical barrier between the snare mic and the hats. I take a clip board and attach it to a mic stand and place it between the hi-hats and the snare(and its mic). This can also help keep them outta the tom mics. Of course this is for close micing, but you can adapt this to distant as well. The other ideas will work, but this is what I have done.
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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by JASIII » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:06 am

Smaller diameter hats are quiter too, several manufacturers make them.
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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by LittleDogAudio » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:40 am

Get the KM84's in closer to the crashes. Then take a piece of foam, cut it into a 4" x 4" square, cut a little slit in the middle of it and slide it over the snare mic. This creates a sorta "visor" to help block the hi hat.

But, really the best way is to have the drummer adjust his/her dynamics.

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by dokushoka » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:27 am

Here are some of my findings with this:

1. Tune the room if you can. Get some "sounding deading board" from Home Depot (its REALLY cheap) and cover it in muslin and hang em where they kill the highs. It'll do wonders.

2. Don't use "hyped" mics. I use some cheapo mics that don't have extended highs at all. This makes for a much "fuller" sounding kit. If I use something like NT5s or even KM184s for overs, the kit feels tiny in comparison.

3. Thin, smaller diameter hats can sound great!

4. Obviously, as you mentioned, talk to drummer-san and ask him to go easy on the metal. If he doesn't try EQing his can mix so that the cymbals are kinda harsh and bright. He'll back off unless he likes the pain...

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by thethingwiththestuff » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:32 am

not sure if this was covered in the above posted sticky links, but you could experiment with micing the hats themselves, and reversing the polarity on that channel. you then try to use that track to cancel out some of the hat bleed elsewhere.

this will get real tricky real fast! be careful!

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by hank hill » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:42 am

dokushoka wrote:Here are some of my findings with this:

1. Tune the room if you can. Get some "sounding deading board" from Home Depot (its REALLY cheap)

Hey man I'm just curious, what is sound deadining board? Is there another name I might know it by? Maybe thats whats throwing me. . I'm wondering so I can find it. Will it be by the plywood? Is it some sort of insulation? Or, are you talking about those sound deadining ceiliing tiles??

Thanks.
L.

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by dokushoka » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:44 am

It comes is 4x8' sheets, and yes, its usually by the drywall and plywood. Costs about $8 a sheet. It looks like compressed wood? Hard to explain.

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by SKEETER » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:36 am

Try this as an experiment: Try standing something you can form into a corner shape (like a room divider) behind the hat so that it is behind the hat, tall enough to be about a foot higher than the hat, and drape something that will aborb a little of the refelction from the hat over it. Perhaps something so simple as terrycloth towells. I am thinking perhaps you have a lot of refelction off a wall somwhere that is making it back to the mics. High hats likely reflect a lot more than lower frequency precussion devices. If that works, then you will know it is an ambiance problem.
You want the sound that travels horizontally away from the hat to be inhibited. so, a barrier from the floor to about a foot obove the hat that is non refelctive may cut down on the sound travel of the hat enough to make it less loud as the mics see it.

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Re: Recording DRUMS with LESS HI-HAT please....

Post by xonlocust » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:44 am

the last thing i did i had a big problem with this. everyone keeps posting what i was gonna say - but even so, when i went to mastering i still thought they were too outta control, but mastering was able to tame them a bit.

BUT, i think getting it right in tracking is the best option.

i believe he notched out a bit around 11k or something, and also the whole mix went through chandler LTD2s which were pretty boss. kinda took the edge off a bit.

strange though about hat size... i was always under the impression that bigger hats would be less harsh and projecting. i use 13" ones, but just got some 14"s to try that out.

dokushoka - are you thinking about MDF? it's dark brown and really heavy?

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