What's the difference:"talent" vs. "charisma&

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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by fremitus » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:20 am

what's better than charisma?
machismo!

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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by stillafool » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:17 pm

There's a story in Del Rio Texas about the time the local arts committe invited Andres Segovia to play guitar in front of the locals. I think the kids expected Roy Rogers or Gene Autry to play cowboy songs, because after Segovia started playing, some kid rolled a coke bottle down the aisle. Then he stopped playing. To add insult to injury the local hick hotel wouldn't let him stay because they thought he was a Mexican. They used to bring some other guy -- a third rate Russian violinist who played behind his head. The kids loved him.
Wild Bill wrote:
drumsound wrote:Talent is an ability to do something well. Usually it?s an enhancement of something that person can naturally just do.

Charisma on the other hand is more of a magnetism that just draws people in. When people have charisma you want to watch them perform, talk to them, meet them learn about them etc.

.
That about nails it down.

If you have talent, you need no lessons.
Andre Segovia had talent (never took a lesson in his life)
He went so far as to say he felt lessons inhibited ones ability to express ones self on an instrument., yet he had an extreme degree of virtuosity.

Kurt Kobain had charisma. I often look past his lack of virtuousity on guitar and see great personal expression.

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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:42 pm

stillafool wrote:There's a story in Del Rio Texas about the time the local arts committe invited Andres Segovia to play guitar in front of the locals. I think the kids expected Roy Rogers or Gene Autry to play cowboy songs, because after Segovia started playing, some kid rolled a coke bottle down the aisle. Then he stopped playing. To add insult to injury the local hick hotel wouldn't let him stay because they thought he was a Mexican. They used to bring some other guy -- a third rate Russian violinist who played behind his head. The kids loved him.
Wild Bill wrote:
drumsound wrote:Talent is an ability to do something well. Usually it?s an enhancement of something that person can naturally just do.

Charisma on the other hand is more of a magnetism that just draws people in. When people have charisma you want to watch them perform, talk to them, meet them learn about them etc.

.
That about nails it down.

If you have talent, you need no lessons.
Andre Segovia had talent (never took a lesson in his life)
He went so far as to say he felt lessons inhibited ones ability to express ones self on an instrument., yet he had an extreme degree of virtuosity.

Kurt Kobain had charisma. I often look past his lack of virtuousity on guitar and see great personal expression.
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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by stillafool » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:14 pm

I think I'd use the term "charisma" as either a joke or somewhat contemptuosly. Charisma usually refers to "what people like," which more often than not means the least common denominator, or something egregious and loud to attract the attention of the masses. It rarely refers to anything of quality, especially in today's world.

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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by MichaelAlan » Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:39 pm

Zeppelin4Life...I will gladly write a response to your nieghbor for you..


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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by soundguy » Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:20 pm

seems like talent is an extension of inherent ability, charisma is an extension of inherent personality. I suppose these ideas can overlap, some people's charisma is often viewed as their talent...

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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by Antero » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:38 pm

I'd separate "talent" and "skill," in that one is natural and one is learned. Charisma is disconnected for either - it is, rather, force of personality, presence. A performer needs charisma, otherwise people don't give a damn. The Segovia/Cobain example is a good one.
stillafool wrote:I think I'd use the term "charisma" as either a joke or somewhat contemptuosly. Charisma usually refers to "what people like," which more often than not means the least common denominator, or something egregious and loud to attract the attention of the masses. It rarely refers to anything of quality, especially in today's world.
Neither that definition, nor LCD pop culture, have anything to do with charisma. Indeed, the sort of musicians who would fall under your descriptor rarely have any charisma at all, as no personality reaches out through their performances.
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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by joeysimms » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:55 pm

Antero wrote:.... The Segovia/Cobain example is a good one.
No it's not. You think Cobain wasn't talented??
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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:12 pm

Joeysimms:

The world is not made only of black and white, rather many subtle shades of grey.

Talent and charisma are not mutually exclusive.

No-one said Kurbain was untalented. He was an extremely talented composer. He was, however, far from a master of the guitar. He is, however, a shining example of a charismatic artist. That does not mean that he had to jump around or anyhing like that. It does mean that he drew you into his work.

Segovia was an absolute master of the instrument, without ever having to take lessons on the guitar. That takes extreme talent. His charisma was sadly lacking however. Look at the example of those childrens reaction to him.

I have more Nirvana's CDs than Segovia's.
I'm not trying to put anyone down, just being very objective.
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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by MichaelAlan » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:26 pm

Wild Bill wrote:Joeysimms:

The world is not made only of black and white, rather many subtle shades of grey.
Only to dogs and the color blind...


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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:33 pm

MichaelAlan wrote:
Wild Bill wrote:Joeysimms:

The world is not made only of black and white, rather many subtle shades of grey.
Only to dogs and the color blind...


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It's an analogy, Mike.
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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by joeysimms » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:57 pm

Good one Bill!

I still think the example was poor, though..
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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by Antero » Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:09 am

joeysimms wrote:
Antero wrote:.... The Segovia/Cobain example is a good one.
No it's not. You think Cobain wasn't talented??
Don't get me wrong, I love the guy.

He was a good songwriter, but he keep his guitar work simple, and his vocals are often mumbled incomprehensibly in a way that would make my choir directors go batshit ballistic on him. The thing was, though, it didn't matter. He could invest a few chords and a wavering melody with his entire being, and he could throw his soul into a scream.

It's charisma. People respond to it.
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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by Rigsby » Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:36 am

At the start of this thread i felt i had a clear distinction between the two, now i'm not so sure, but i think soundguy put it best.
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Re: What's the difference:"talent" vs. "chari

Post by Vern » Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:26 am

Neil Peart vs. Keith Moon. Personally, I prefer the king of charisma to the king of talent.

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