Preamps, different types of the same..

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Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by Zeppelin4Life » Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:52 am

Most people would be like 'id rather spend the same $ on a bunch of different preamps for their color' and this is a valid point. but, in the past people recorded on boards with usually all the same pres, right? The mixes sounded pretty smooth. I guess my point is do you really find yourself mixing 5 different preamps into the same mix and you think it sounds better? Itll bring the instruments out, but isnt a huge part of mixing blending them together? Just something I noticed.
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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by JohnDavisNYC » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:12 am

yes. the whole 'outboard' preamp thing is a pretty new invention... consoles used to sound good, so you didn't need 'flavors'... everything sounded good and sat together. abbey road didn't have any api lunchboxes, because they had the most wikkid custom consoles. (also, api didn't exist yet...)

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by soundguy » Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:50 am

This is a complex subject but for me, personally, I would need to entirely reevaulte my tracking style if I had to use only a console, no matter how good it is. Ive been using external preamps for over 10 years and my recording style is completely hinged around it. You should be looking at everything as an amplifier. If you patch a limiter because it puts something someplace cool, its the line amplifier that is mostly putting it there, not the compression circuit. A mic pre will do the same thing. Preproduction is really important for me, I'll have an entire mix structured based around the amplifier choices I make during tracking, and overdubs I'll fit in front or behind of this or that by selecting the appropriate amplifier. This approach also lets me use way less EQ. Yes, the idea of a mix is to blend it all together, but when youve used all the same pre, everything is being amplified exactly the same way, so you have to do a lot more carving with EQ if you want to give your mix some shape. If you use a bunch of different amps, it already has some wierd shape, you then have to make it fit together. Its just a different way of working and by no means something you should or shouldnt do. The one thing to get your brain around is looking at every single thing as an amplifier, which it is, your head will hurt less when it comes to thinking about stuff like this.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by KennyLusk » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:41 am

I like to totally mix things up, including inserting a variety of passive gadgets and an assortment of cables to change the color a little and get the sounds of different transformers, opamps and circuits.

For example, I rarely run DI for electric bass through the same preamp I used for vocals or acoustic guitar. Background vocals are routed through one more (or one less) box on their way to my PC or RTR also.

I might use the same mic on a few instruments, but hardly ever do I use the same signal path for 2 different instruments.

Plugins are another story though. Sonar has a native plugin called the FX Tape Simulator and I use it for a very natural sounding compression. It's not designed for that but if you analyze what the controls do to the signal it really starts to look and sound like a transparent (and fast) compressor that has features you can also use to "color" the tone and sound. It gets used on about 20% of my tracks. Believe it or not that particular plugin allows me to not have to use EQ or compression and absolutely does not degrade the original waveform.

Dave hit the nail right on the head.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by nick_a » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:27 pm

my whole thing is if there are fewer than like 8 or 16 tracks, i think it's really feasible to use the same set of pre's. (think about the different mic's you could use!)

but ever since pro tools etc etc etc and like 1 billion tracks, it makes a lot more sense to have different amps with different discriminations toward frequencies.

i mean, you can make anything sound awesome.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by soundguy » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:31 pm

Ive never used more than 16 tracks on a record. Not once. Dont see the need.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by nick_a » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:59 pm

oh, dave. I know. but y'know, what about all the 'classic' records? from the time when they didn't have different boxes? (yes i know they had built-in compressors etc etc) Those sound pretty good!

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dave-this message screams "TEACH ME SOMETHING I DIDN'T KNOW". I don't want to be an ignoramus and am not trying to claim knowledge about stuff where i know nothing.
Last edited by nick_a on Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by audioez » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:00 pm

hell, all I have to say is that I'm hired to record basic tracks for all sorts of music. My preamp collection not only gives me my own unique sound, but my clients wouldn't have it any other way.

Since 90% of the work I do is recorded to a DAW, I must not only deliver greats sounds, but quickly. Having a slew of outboard preamps allows me to have a sound that can be recreated at a momments notice. Also it should be noted that these preamps live in the live room, usually near the drums. The amplifier is so important that it's like a great session player being hired to get it right the first time. Since going freelance I have tracked my way into mixing the projects, more days of work doing what I love to do, music!!

I only own about 12 channels of preamps, which is more than enough for what I'm doing. My advice is this: think of the mic pre just like an artist would choose a certian color of paint for his/her pallete. Start out with a 2 channel pre amp, and listen to what different mics sound like. One thing I noticed was an SM57 or any dynamic mic sounds like gold through an discrete pre amp like neve or api.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by sonikbliss » Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:44 pm

The way I see it is, it's not any different than using different mics to get the sound you want. I mean if I had an unlimited supply of U87's and could use one on everything that needed to be miked I wouldn't. I would much rather have a broad pallette of colors to choose from that would allow me to paint the soundscape I desired. Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't have any problem tracking a whole session on an API or NEVE :D . But given a choice I like options.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by NeglectedFred » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:13 pm

From my experiences of plugging one mic into assorted pres, and plugging assorted mics into one pre, I'd have to say the differences among preamps is greater than the differences among microphones.

Granted, a small diaphram dynamic is going to be far different than a large diaphram condenser - when comparing mics with the same elements and polar patterns, I find it's usually the preamps making the greater difference.

I'd get a much better sound out of a $100 mic + $2000 pre than a $2000 mic + $100 pre.

IMHO, various pres are more important than various mics, too bad I spent all my money on mics before I figured it out.. :)
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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by soundguy » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:34 pm

Id much rather give up all my mics and keep just a 421 and all my pres rather than trade all my pres for fantasy mics and have one amplifier. Doesnt that seem just retarded? Thats would I would do, Im sure Im in the minority.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by audioez » Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:18 pm

No dave you're not crazy...the MD421 is a desert island microphone....Just take one and use it on a kick drum, as you already know....BAMMMMMMM!!!!!!!

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by dumbangel » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:46 am

What i've noticed is that modern CDs sound more and more like several records that were juxtaposed onto the same CD track. (i exclude CDs using samples from other records). The colors and textures are so different from each other. The older recordings are, the more they sound like they were coming from the same pot. Now there's more separation but less credibility as a live recording.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by KennyLusk » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:30 pm

dumbangel wrote:What i've noticed is that modern CDs sound more and more like several records that were juxtaposed onto the same CD track. (i exclude CDs using samples from other records). The colors and textures are so different from each other. The older recordings are, the more they sound like they were coming from the same pot. Now there's more separation but less credibility as a live recording.

I agree for the most part, and I think that's the beauty of how the art of making records has evolved into an art of creating interesting sounds and layering them. Older records are facinating and have an ambience and an existence that is timeless and I do still love the sound of a good record that was recorded as a "live" scenario. But my favorite modern records are the ones that are obviously layered works using carefully crafted sounds.

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Re: Preamps, different types of the same..

Post by dumbangel » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:00 pm

A good and famous example of an old fashioned sounding album is Kind of blue by Miles Davis. Recorded with eight M49s probably through the same sound chain. There's a simplicity and uniformity to it that i tend to prefer, although i can understand a preference for more complex sounding recordings.

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