Double tracking lead vox

general questions, comments and ideas about recording, audio, music, etc.
Locked
The Gibbon
gettin' sounds
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:06 pm

Double tracking lead vox

Post by The Gibbon » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:19 pm

I'm looking for a little advice in regards to double tracking lead vocals....I understand that I'm looking for a sence of thickness and presence however I've not had the opportunity to work with a singer who was able to sing along to his own track well enough to really use it. What I've been doing is just digitally copying the one track to another track, slightly offsetting it in time and lowering or raising it a cent or two here and there. Anyone think I'm missing the point?.....have a little advice or a trick they want to share?

cgarges
zen recordist
Posts: 10890
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 1:26 am
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Re: Double tracking lead vox

Post by cgarges » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:29 pm

That can be a really cool effect, but it's not anywhere near the same as actually having someone sing the part twice. The biggest reason is that there are constantly changing variables in regard to both timing and pitch, even if the parts are sung almost identically. Sort of like the difference in digital flanging versus mechanical flanging from using a tape machine. These changes are completely random.

That's not to say that you can't get some cool stuff otherwise. The old Deltalab Effectron boxes are cool for this because you can apply very minor oscillations to your delayed signal. You could also send the signal out to a speaker and re-record it using a moving microphone for some cool Dopler-effect stuff. None of these are really similar to having a good singer double a part consistently, but they're still useful effects.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Dot
pushin' record
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 4:44 am
Location: NY

Re: Double tracking lead vox

Post by Dot » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:38 pm

Actually, instead of two - record three vocals. Use the best one out front and bring the under two just under it - and thicken to taste.

Sometimes singers can actually do a better job if they sing the tracks separately without monitoring the other track/s.
Dan Richards
Pro Studio Reviews

User avatar
Al
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2690
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:26 am

Re: Double tracking lead vox

Post by Al » Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:42 am

Yeah!..both good suggestions from Chris and Dot!.

The three vocal takes with the best up the middle and the other two panned can be nice,but wont work on everything.
Some people say that straight doubles blurs the sound of the voice somewhat,although i dont think this myself.

Nilsson was really good at this,and his two vocal takes were so tight,his voice sounded as one,not everyone can do this though granted.

You can try not feeding them their first vocal take in the headphones.
It's amazing the amount of people who say they cant double trak a vocal as it puts them of,and sometimes you end up surprising them!.

User avatar
bedbug
buyin' a studio
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 10:28 am
Location: Newport, KY

Re: Double tracking lead vox

Post by bedbug » Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:29 am

The Gibbon wrote:Anyone think I'm missing the point?.....have a little advice or a trick they want to share?
On the second take, have the singer sing an octave above or below the original version. Super rich sound. It's a little tough to achieve. I've done it myself and you really need to get waaaay down there, lower than you'd sing normally. Check out some Wilco for examples, specifically the songs "Kamera," and "War on War" from Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.

User avatar
tbstudios
pluggin' in mics
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:12 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Double tracking lead vox

Post by tbstudios » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:40 am

Great suggestions so far from everyone! :-)

I would also like to suggest trying different mics as you layer the vocal in. Chris is right in saying that nothing quite matches actually laying the layered vocal with the actual singer singing again. That being said, I also have copied the track, as you have stated, and delayed it slightly and then panned off to create the depth. Using a different mic can "fatten" the vocal by bringing out frequency ranges that may or may not be accented by your primary vocal mic.

Also, using different levels of compression can also create some depth in the vocal tracks. Try using a different compression setting for each vocal layer behind the main.
-Tim P.

Tour Bus Studios

kavish
pluggin' in mics
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:33 am
Location: The Home of KrispyKreme and TexasPete

Re: Double tracking lead vox

Post by kavish » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:08 am

Hi guys. You've got a cool place here. Been lurking for awhile.

One of the other handy things about doubling the lead vocal is the simple comping options it brings up. When I'm mixing/editing other artists, I take note if the double's performance was better than the original on certain lines and will bring the double up to the original track's level and drop the original down to a support level for those sections, lines or single words where I like the double track better than the original.
This usually works best if the singer is not hearing the previous takes, like Dot mentioned, because they will sometimes undersing the double if they can hear the first take, and you end up with something more like a backing vocal part than a double.
When I'm singing my own doubles, however, I do listen to the previous take, and watch my phrase tails so the notes fall off together, and sometimes leave off consonants at the ends of words(on the double) to make it blend more smoothly with the original.
Good luck!
kavish
Kavish's Kave
Coming soon: New CD releases from The Honeyfed Worms/Renae Paige/Kavish
Image

llmonty
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 10:17 am
Location: richmond, va

Re: Double tracking lead vox

Post by llmonty » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:12 am

I have been working with this alot on a recent song and am right now finalising the submix for these.

I have always tried this on my own work as my singing isn't always the strongest, especially in certain keys. For me, the thing is that you can easily get carried away and then the vocal sound is just so effected. So you really need to take a step back and think about what is right for the song. -- This is my big challenge right now.

Most recently I have ended up using 3 tracks, with the best up the middle, as mentioned. The second is up there too, slightly left or right and at much lower volume. This thickens it up without too much of the double/flanged effect. The 3rd is panned hard.

Other comments:
It is a cool effect to occasionally drop 1 or 2 of the tracks to (de)emphasize certain words or phrases.

(this works best in a hard-disk envirnoment where looping back is easy) If you want to really get a strongly similar take, take a section of the song and just loop it over and over again as the singer sings - give them like 10 takes. I find that the singer really starts to lock into the take when it loops. Then sort though the 10 for the ones that sound the best.

Really need to check for aligning words and sylables, especially t, s, p etc.

User avatar
greenmeansjoe
buyin' gear
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 12:33 pm
Location: Newport News, Va.

Re: Double tracking lead vox

Post by greenmeansjoe » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:17 am

kavish wrote: When I'm singing my own doubles, however, I do listen to the previous take, and watch my phrase tails so the notes fall off together, and sometimes leave off consonants at the ends of words(on the double) to make it blend more smoothly with the original.
Good luck!
When I double a vocal or sing a harmony, I will, at times, drop hard consonants at the beginning of a line. It works pretty well.

Joe

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests