Question about Pavement

[SpockPicasso]

I didn't pay any attention to Pavement during their career. Recently I've read several references to Pavement which called "Slanted and Enchanted" a "landmark" and "groundbreaking" album. I bought the remastered re-issue with bonus tracks.

First question: Pavement's "lo-fi" sound was very much a part of the band's identity. How different is sound of the remastered version of "Slanted" from the original release?

Second question: I like noisy indie guitar rock, and after a few listens I like the record okay. I've got a couple songs stuck in my head. But I'm not convinced they were doing anything all that new, at least not worthy of the kind of praise I've read about them. Am I missing something?

-sp

[bobbydj]

Hardly at all and no.

These are guesses.

[jajjguy]

I like this album a lot, and i think it was a bit ahead of the curve at the time and was kind of a breath of fresh air, but it's not complex or nuanced or difficult to imitate, so after years of hearing other bands that have been influenced by this album, it's bound to sound dated. In my opinion, some of Sebadoh's stuff has a similar appeal but holds up a lot better because it's so individual.

[concubine]

Second question: I like noisy indie guitar rock, and after a few listens I like the record okay. I've got a couple songs stuck in my head. But I'm not convinced they were doing anything all that new, at least not worthy of the kind of praise I've read about them. Am I missing something?

I got into Pavement shortly after "Slanted" came out, back in '92, I believe. In fact, the first time I saw or heard them was when they opened for Sonic Youth that year. I remember the first impression my friends and I had was that it was pretty good, but that at least live they came off sounding an awful lot like a male Breeders, or like the Pixies. In fact, after playing "Trigger Cut," I remember Malkmus even said something to the effect of "We're just a Pixies cover band."

Soon after, I bought a copy of "Slanted" and it really grew on me after a few listens. They seemed to take the scratchy sound of "Sister" era Sonic Youth, and combined it with more catchy pop sensibilities, with occasional hints of early Fall. I thought the songwriting itself was great at the time, but now with hindsight, it seems more of an amalgam of various indie sounds that were in vogue up to that point. It wasn't stunningly original, yet they had an undeniably enigmatic and charming personality that came through the music and lyrics, which was kind of their own personal stamp, I guess. I also think they had a better handle on catchy hooks than most indie rock bands at that point, which seemed to help make them stand out.

What makes "Slanted" "monumental", for better or worse, is that a deluge of indie bands quickly picked up on Pavement's hip slacker-vibe and just drove it into the ground. Pavement seemed to sum up something that a lot of bored indie-hipsters could relate to at the time (detached irony, enigmatic lyrics and interviews, more irony, scrappy trebbly sounds, moppy hair, etc...). So, they got copied a lot. A lot of indie rock stuff to come out since "Slanted" really owes a large stylistic debt to Pavement. Take Modest Mouse, for example, who in turn spawned an even younger generation of indie-rockers. If anything, Pavement seemed to help bridge the gap between 80s indie rock and 90s indie rock.

I really can't listen to Pavement anymore, but every now and then hearing something from "Slanted" makes me a bit nostalgic. I think time has been much kinder to the Pixies, who I think are more deserving of the praise they've been getting lately (and the kind of praise Pavement seems to warrant these days). I get a helluva lot more out of "Doolittle" than anything by Pavement.

Jeff

[lobstman]

Pavement seemed to sum up something that a lot of bored indie-hipsters could relate to at the time (detached irony, enigmatic lyrics and interviews, more irony, scrappy trebbly sounds, moppy hair, etc...).

And they copied THAT from Camper Van Beethoven.

I always thought half the songs on early Pavement records were great, but the other half were pure crap. At the end they achieved a balance, and all the songs were mediocre.

Great post, Jeff.

[inverseroom]

I actually listen to "Crooked Rain" and "Brighten the Corners" more than Slanted. I feel like they finally just went whole hog with their pop sensibilities and were being more honest with themselves--there was less posing, more songwriting. I like a well-written song. Anyhow, I loved them, and even kind of like Malkmus's solo stuff. He's a hilarious lyricist and very influential to me.

[bobbydj]

The hip slacker thing was J Mascis's too. It was a pisser when Everett True of the Melody Maker asked JM what his favourite metaphor was. 'What's a metaphor?' he says.

[craigloom]

Just wanted to say that I think Concubine hit it right on. I totally agree. Very well said. Pavement doesn't quite sound as innovative and refreshing now as it did back in the early nineties. I appreciate what Pavement did and get a little nostalgic myself when I hear it (guess that shows my age), but I don't really find my self listening to them much anymore like I do with the Pixies, Sonic Youth, or MBV. I just can't seem to relate to Pavement these days besides the nostalgia factor. I feel the same way about Unwound. Though, they deserve every bit of praise they might have gotten. They were amazing.
I you haven't heard Unwound and you want a definative album of early 90's noise rock then go get "Fake Train".

[aworryingthing]

compared to the original CD release, the recent deluxe remastered 'slanted and enchanted' sounds a lot fuller sonically, not unlike the twin tone era replacements reissues from last year. they've boosted the overall volume, for one. it's not like they went too far in converting 'slanted' for 5.1 surround systems or other such nonsense. it's still trebly as hell and the new disc won't get confused for a radio-friendly sound. and they certainly did not try to bury the crude editing and the, for lack of a better term, idiosyncratic mix levels.

but this does raise a good point about how something that purportedly defined 'lo-fi' for many people can be remastered at all... but that seems like a loaded theoretical issue. as a thought, you can compare this with the recent remastered CD of hank williams. they're still primitive recordings from yesteryear and the remastering process only helps you to appreciate the original integrity of the performances. perhaps someone with more of a mastering background can shed some light on what gets added in the remastering process.

if this means anything, after acquiring the deluxe version, i sold my original CD as well as the 'watery domestic' EP.

and kudos to the folks at matador for giving us our money's worth of bonus cuts galore. sonically, we can argue about the pros and cons... but in terms of value: it's a real bargain.

[SpaceCad]

I still do and have loved Pavement for a long time. I don't consider them groundbreaking or figureheads of a certain music movement, but I love their attitude. Stephen Malkmus has developed a style of singing and playing out of tune and uses it as an effect. He'll be out of tune until you can't stand it and then he'll drop back into the key. I love that

I also think that they had great textures of guitars on their albums. Slanted and Enchanted is a great example. They have that buzzsaw guitar laid on top of a very clean, jangy strat tone and it all balances out.

One reason for that great guitar texture is that Stephen Malkmus rarely plays in a standard tuning. Usually he has a somewhat open tuning with a very de-tuned low E, usually down to C#. He has basically originated his own forms of tuning (I think he revolves around 3 or 4 tunings) some of which have been adopted by other guitarists like Thurston Moore. You can find out the exact tunings from any fan message board or search.

[trashy]

Man, I love pavement. One of my all time faves. In the liner of the new remaster, someone calls "Slanted and Enchanted" the album that launched a thousand weezers. It's so true. In the '90s every band sounded like either Nirvana or Pavement. Maybe that's not such a great thing, but it is true that they were a huge part of making the '90s what they were.

I still listen to Pavement, and I totally agree with the assessment of them as a bridge between the '80s and '90s. The comparisons to Pixies (which I hear all of the time) are pretty off the mark considereing that they weren't contemporaries: the Pixies came before and influenced Pavement. Yeah, I like Velvet Underground better than Pavement, too.

Anyway, everyone should here "here" from "Slanted and Enchanted". It's just so beautiful.

[Slider]

listen to crooked rain. weezer would've had no carrer with out pavement.
same for bands like the starlight mints. this was a great band!!
J. Mascus isn't in the same league. did you see him playing on jenny jones a while back??????
sad...very sad.

[concubine]

One reason for that great guitar texture is that Stephen Malkmus rarely plays in a standard tuning. ... He has basically originated his own forms of tuning (I think he revolves around 3 or 4 tunings) some of which have been adopted by other guitarists like Thurston Moore.

Um, wasn't it the other way around? I mean, maybe Malkmus hit upon a certain tuning that Thurston Moore liked and happened to "borrow", but Sonic Youth were around for a good decade before Pavement even started, and, as everyone knows, SY were experimenting with altered tunings that entire time. In fact, Sonic Youth gets a lot of credit (along with Glenn Branca and other NY no wave dudes from the 80s) for really pushing and influencing the use of altered tunings in indie-rock. It was kids like Malkmus who grew up on Sonic Youth and were influenced by all that.

What's really interesting about altered tunings is how many guitarists who DON'T play dissonant indie rock use them. From Keith Richards to Johnny Marr (my personal guitar god), there's tons of stuff out there that's not in standard tuning. And I didn't really realize this 'til kind of recently. I was thoroughly shocked when I learned that about half of all Smiths songs were not played in standard tuning. But, this is another subject for another thread....

Jeff

[Eric Rottmayer]

i think it might be hard for someone who never experienced Pavement via SxE around when it was released to fully understand the whole thing. there was some kind of magic put into this record that made it great at the time and it was very new and exceptional to alot of people including me. someone will always argue that it's been done before; and it has, and will be done again. but i think somehow alot of people became connected thru this record and alot of good music was spawned from that. some will also say alot of bad music came from it too, and it did. i'm not trying to oversensationize this album; it's does have great songs and it also has some bad experimental trash that is good too.
maybe it's just that for me, this was the record that turned me on to a million other records. i agree that 'crooked rain' contained better songs, as did the 'watery, domestic' EP before that. also, all of their singles from around this time had amazing b-sides. the remaster contains some of that which is cool. some say it all went downhill from there. but where else could it go? then again, i love 'Wowie Zowie'. i don't know, just listen to stuff you like and don't listen if you don't like it.

[SpaceCad]

Concubine,

You are correct that Sonic Youth began experimenting with alternate tunings long before Pavement was even a band. Sonic Youth adopted it from the Velvet Underground.

I should have been more clear. Thurston Moore adopted a particular tuning from Stephen Malkmus after touring with them. I believe it is some form of Fsus4 with a C# on the lowest string. It's been a while since I have messed around with it. He uses it on a lot of the later SY stuff.

But I guess my point was that Pavement was very concerned and geared toward creating textures of guitars. That was there sound, besides Malkmus' weird vocals. If you notice on the albums up to Crooked Rain, most of the songs don't even have a bass guitar on them.