acoustic guitar as swarm of bees

[Brian Brock]

Hi, I'm working on a recording of a driving fifth-string acoustic guitar part, which is to imply a swarm of bees. When I play it live, it feels and sounds right, but the recording seems to be flat.

I've recorded the track twice, panned hard left and right, which sounds 'bigger', but still kind of just overwhelming flatness. I also compressed the bejeezus out of the tracks, but this left it sounding unnatural, and the lyrics sort of imply a nature-loving wood fired humongous swarm of bees.

Any suggestions of techniques?

thanks

[Electricide]

well, adding some fx might help elicit the swarming bee idea. Like a medium speed chorus, variable depth or something. You could eq the fx return for, well, effect.

Also, not a good idea, but you could duplicate a mono track, flip polarity, and pan it hard opposite the original. It would disappear in mono, but in stereo it should creep around your head, helping the bees thing.

Flat is a pretty vague term too. Flat as in eq, depth, dynamics, or what?

[joeysimms]

Any suggestions of techniques?

Here's what I'd try:

Find a tuning that will allow you to play the part with open chords. Take one of the "sympathetic" strings and tune it one octave lower. I have a riff that plays with G, so I tune the G string down one octave. Buzz city!

Then, mix this 3rd guitar in with the 2 you've already got.

[marqueemoon]

I'd try doubling the chords in a higher voicing or playing single note lines in a higher register and panning them around to give them some lifelike swarming action. Some well chosen dissonant notes sprinkled in would probably sound cool too.

[andrew embassy]

I'd roll off on the compression a bit, too; you may be making the overall volume too steady instead of modulating a bit. Speaking of modulation, you might try a fast tremelo, too.

[Piotr]

Are the tracks out of phase? Sometimes things can lose depth when phase cancellation occurs....

[@?,*???&?]

I need more description as to what the guitar is supposed to do in the track...is it the primary rhythm instrument? Is it one of many guitars? Is a Michael Hedges styled solo acoustic thing? Put together a better producer-vision in your mind and I think the path might become more clear.

Usually when mixing, raw tracks are cool, but the coloration in the mix is determined by any number of other flexible elements. Have you built a mix yet or have you just overdubbed and are days away from mixing?

I can't offer advice yet on this one other than what's above.

[jake-owa]

Try to mix in a few tracks of rapidly picked strings. I would do that and add a chorus while fading it in and out to mimic the dynamic changes of the song. Try a couple strings in the octave above and below while muting the lower octave strings a bit. Maybe do those parts at double the speed of the strumming or faster.

Just throwin it out there...

[swingdoc]

What do you mean by "flat?"
If you mean "dull", then...
try new strings, clean your frets, point a condensor mic more towards the strings between the sound hole and the base of the neck.
Also, if its sounds OK live, but dull recorded, maybe its the natural reverb you're missing. Try recording in a liver room like a tiled bathroom..
I agree, try backing off on the comp.
Try huming the part with a kazzoo as sort of a whispered double..might give a cool vox buzz talk part underlay to it...
buzz me baby..

[Disasteradio]

if you're working in DAW one idea that came to mind is a granular effect (crusherX, etc).. could be tweaked up on the gat to sound like bees, maybe.. maybe..

[joeysimms]

Drone is the answer, plain and simple.. Tune all your strings to the same note.. you'll hear bees, especially if one string is super slack

[Brian Brock]

Wow! What a huge variety of ideas - I can only hope the fellow sees this who said that naive questions don't get enough replies!


For those interested, the part is a driving, dissonant melody/bass line played on the fifth and fourth strings. It's structured so that the tonality rises a little, then releases into rock and roll, then rises and releases again. It's "flat" in that, when I play it live, paired only with vocals (which kind of ride right on top, matching the fourth string's notes - could it be that I don't here the vocals when I play and sing at the same time, and it's hearing the vocals in the mix that seems to deaden the guitar?), it feels like a nail-gun that shoots bees, and when I listen to the recording, it sounds like a single bee using a plastic hammer to pound a tiny nail.

I think I will try fooling around with phase - I like that one person said to put it completely out of phase, and another suggested phase issues could be the root of the problem. Can anyone explain how that works? It sounds like there's some principle there... ?

I have added some parts and so forth, but I'm really wondering if I can get just a pure recording of this part to match the live feel, without noticeable effects. Phase and compression are the type of thing I'm thinking of, where I don't alter the sound as much as how it hits the speaker...

Thanks!

[I'm Painting Again]

what about mixing in an actual bee swarm a little under the guitar tuned to drone?

[swingdoc]

Cool..
"Flat" as in "wussy"?...so how do you make a single guitar line paired with a vocal line to sound like......."pow!!"? hmmm..
Live you have the added advantage of a few things: volume, adrenaline, natural surround sound, (reverb-ambience) and dynamic range.

Although compression might make the guitar part....um....more compressed, it may not (necesarily) be the effect you want.
Compression is actually a fairly absent effect in the real live setting. A live dynamic range is usually quite huge, and it adds to the excitement of the music. By compressing it, you are by definition limiting the parts' dynamic range, and may creating the "wussiness" you're feeling. Compression doenst always make a part smash your face, in fact, it may do just the opposite. Especially (IMO) if there is a sparceness to the tracks / parts. Compression can take a track out of 16 and bring it a bit more forward, but it doesnt take a track by itself and do this.
Try tracking with no compression. Try mixing with no compression. Record it in stereo with some good natural room ambience. Play it good n hard. Start here and see how it goes.
Id also try recording the guitar line like this:
Stereo field (L1&2R)
re -record same part stereo (L3&4R)
Then start by mixing..hard left 1; soft left3: soft R4: hard right 2
Then pan these 4 tracks around until you start to hear some size.

Phase is a matter of listening...
If tracks sound as if they cancel when you add them, then try switching the phase. If its sounds better, there were phase problems..
good luck....bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
mc

[Electricide]

yeah, if you listen in mono, and pockets or sections of frequency start disappearing, then you have phase issues.
In stereo, it'll play with your head.

Try this.

Take the output of your cd player into two mono channels at line level. At least one of these needs a polarity reverse. Now, as you're listening at the mix position, flip the polarity of only one side of the recording. It's almost like the sound cuts your head off. anything that was mono and relatively up the center, like bass guitar or kick, pretty much vanishes. But stuff in stereo swings around to the "outside" of your head. When you do this to the entire mix there's obviously a big hole in the middle of the sound. But if you can do this for a few tracks, while keeping the guts up the middle, it could be neat.