Your worst recording AND YOU SENT THE MONEY BACK!

[joelpatterson]

Once upon a time, a cat showed up and laid $1,000 in crisp Benjys on the table--he was going to produce himself, starting with tracking his acoustic guitar, the fucking monster record of all time, or at least a hugely popular one.

Well, I was the guy to do it. He talked me down to a humiliating $20/hr, me and my glistening state-of-the-art studio... when he finally sat down to play, it was somewhere between comical and truly pathetic. It sounded as if he were making it up as he went, without rhyming or really picking a topic. By the time I had endured $600, enough was enough. I shipped him the ADATs and a check for $400 and my regrets, best luck.

I could not IMAGINE refusing real money before this happened. Strike a chord, anyone?

[tiger vomitt]

i just recently recorded a terrible song for someone as part of an album. after him spending about $300 on this one song, i told him to take 2 or 3 weeks to practice it and make it better. i said i would record it for free in the new space im moving into next week.

sometimes a client is just all too ready to have a fucking retarded terrible song on an album. my name's on that thing as producer, i dont want a song that bad on there ya know? if it means doing for free then that's what ive got to do - this time.

funny topic this is!

[Auxillary]

Ive done it before. Here's your money back, here's your recording, dont feel obliged to give me any credit at all.


In fact, Ill sue your ass off if you mention my name on that peice of shit

[bern]

I was actually just thinking about this earlier.

I would sure as shit keep the money(consider it payment for your time and suffering), but I'd add that they keep my name out of the credits.

[SirDonut]

but I'd add that they keep my name out of the credits.

ballsy.

I had a similar problem when I started off. I used to always feel like what I had recorded for a band was mediocre and didn't sound that good. I would undercharge people in the end because I felt that I hadn't delivered on my end, but never actually explicitly admit it. (it usually didn't sound that good, to be honest.)

I guess this was an example of :
a)how the power has shifted from engineer to artist due to the proliferation of cheap equipment, which has resulted in the rise of many crappy studios and a lower quality-product (something I participate(d) in).
b)an example of getting into something over your head when you start off without really knowing what it is you're doing and letting it show.

Unfortunately, I'm still guilty of occasionally doing this in one way or another. I'm sometimes scared to ask what I feel I deserve on a project because I feel like an artist can just go "oh, well i'll go down the street to so-and-so-with-a-mackie-board studios instead."

[Rodgre]

For some engineers, you've developed a reputation. This is what gets you new business. For instance, our studio doesn't advertise. There's no phone book listing. We rely soley on word of mouth and people reading the credits on CDs.

So that said, if there is a bad project out there with our name on it, it can really have a detrimental effect on us. If I can't avoid doing a project that it going to sound like crap regardless of what I do, I will ask that our name be left off.

In my experience, one of the worst culprits of what will make a bad recording, at least technically, is bad drumming/bad drum sounds. You could have the greatest drum kit, tuned by Dave Weckl himself, all mic'd perfectly in the perfect room, and if the drummer sucks, you can't save it. Nothing will make it sound good.

Because A) I want to keep my reputation and B) I can't stand letting something go, knowing it could be better, I have spent COUNTLESS hours "fixing" someone's bad drum tracks, trying to shore up the foundation, and beef up the tones with a little soundreplacer, (by the way, hiring an outside drummer to replace the tracks would be MUCH easier, but that's out of the question) and doing it on MY time. The same could be said for fixing bad vocals.

I hate to do that. I LOVE when I do a record and their basic tracks are the keepers and it just mixes itself. Not because I'm lazy, but because it sounds better. Not to mention that I'm not earning a living by fixing someone else's inability. Hell, I SHOULD be charging EXTRA, no?

Anyway, I've never sent a project on its' way, other than having one band opt to have someone else mix it because their budget ran out with me, and I'm not sure that we were all happy with my mixes anyway. No animosity. I love the band, actually.

So the best word of advice, set yourself up to avoid or at least minimize those dreadful projects for the start. Always feel out clients. Ask for demos if you don't know them at all.

Roger

[friendlybunny]

Yes... I was editing and mixing a short film that was directed (and funded) by a crazy self-absorbed woman. After about 3 days of changing specific dialogue levels by 1-2db on protools, I gave up. I referred her to someone who was "better than me" for the job.

Don't bother paying me that last bit of money, just get the fuck out of my studio.

I figure it's fair because I really couldn't do the job, so you should get your money back. I was basically getting paid to stroke this woman's ego all day, and I couldn't take it.

I also worked on a video game that was so bad and stupid, I quit after 1 day and never charged them.

I guess that's one of the benefits of being self-employed. You can turn down projects that are ridiculous.

Even though people waste your time, i feel that it's partly my fault for agreeing to do the job in the first place, so I usually refund the money or don't charge them for it.

[bigtoe]

more and more...to the point where it was really like a year + of messy, less than ideal situations where the tail was wagging the dog....the tail being either the peeps in front of the mics or the lack of budgetting - be it money or time...it wouldn't always be like as comical as the poor musician in the original post but being asked to record a drum set that was found 'in a yard' was like the beginning of the end for me.

i finally stopped recording 'in general'...like took the shingle down...with the exception of some demos and a few projects where i know it's going to be taken care of until the end and will work around schoolin'...i'll put it back up when i have a bigger set up.

the standard is really low...and this is in real 'indie rock' environment - 8 track or 16 track da38- dig?...so the standard isn't like a queen record to begin with...and i'm not whining - i understand whats up and to each his own...if it rocks for you it rocks for you. i also know that an 8 track and a mackie isn't gonna attract the stones..but there was a time where the tape cost was a fraction of the studio time where i'd mix and now it's almost the other way around. there has been a real change in how people 'use' the recording studio and engineers...at least where i'm at...and i've been doing it since 96 on the 8 track...

i guess raising standards in a time when standards are lowering sucks... i let people know i'm not too happy with how project goes and walk away from it professionally after bending over backwards and doing backflips to do the project well - but it sucks...i love music and the people that make it...

that said i'm going to a decent session right now! ROCK AND ROLL....sorry for the blab...thanks for the topic it's a good one and a sensitive subject to sure...i love these types of threads though...cool to see others go thru the world.

MIke

[hank hill]

hi

im new here and this is my first post.. this was a great topic and i couldnt pass it up

i moved my gear out of my house and out into the "real world" about a year ago

i havent advertised yet because im still working all the bugs out of my current setup.. and of course i want to have a cool vibe down and all... its not my livelyhood yet so ive got time to get my little procedure down pat.

that being said... i get all of my work through word of mouth.... so every band im recording.. now that im in the "real world" is related to the last band and the band before that and so on

and i hate to say it.. but ive wanted to send every single one of them home within the first two hours of recording and tell them to keep their money

i cant agree more with the drum comment posted above... thats the key... i mean its the first thing usually that goes down anyway...

dosent have to be a great kit.. dosent have to be an AMAZING drummer... but come on.. it just needs to be somewhat solid.. is that too much to ask... at least occasionally hit the kick with some sort of consistency

and it never fails... these bands that are coming into my place (not necesarily things ive done or things ive recorded in the past.. but now that ive got my "real" studio... and again.. theyre all sorta related to each other).....every single time its been the drums... and then im spending hours and hours of my own time trying to fix the drums up.. moving this around.. changining this.. adding that.. whatever.. and still. the whole foundation is weak.

like i said... im not advertising the place.. pretty much because i dont need to rely on the studio right now for income and so i want the place to just totally kill before i really go public ... and so all these bands are sorta friends of each other and in the same "scene".. and i guess. honestly i think they arent very good

so oh yeah.. ive definitley recorded some winners and wanted to give their money back!!... but... i guess this brings me to my question

are there some pointers you all could give me on how to maybe talk to the drummers?? some script maybe to talk around them without hurting their ego?? im really trying over here... i spent hours talking to the last band that started recording before recording about how its all gonna work out and how i need the drums to be and how it needs to be practiced and all this stuff. how that drums can be the key and i even mentioned ive been having a real hard time with drummers... they said everything would be fine.. and that their drummer is great.... oh.. ok....no......


maybe not even just drummers.. but just your clients in general when you KNOW what your hearing isnt gonna go to tape well... when do you just say.. "alright guys.. you gotta pack it up"

[loudmusic]

Related to this topic, don't you find it is the people who THINK they know what they are talking about that cause all your troubles?

I have been a victim of, and witness to many occasions where the client comes in with this attitude, i don't know where it comes from, but they really believe they are "special". That they are some second coming of christ. They always suck, and they always treat you like an idiot. Most recently, this guy kept raving about this awesome compressor an Alesis "2630" that he suggested I use??!! THis same guy kept asking why I wasn't using "powertools"!! THankfully he was just checking my place out, I made sure to quote him a special rate (twice what I usually charge people). If he'll pay me that..... I guess I'll suffer through it, and just keep thinking about the gear I'm buying with that money!!!

I wrote a song called "IDIOT FADER" about a client who couldn't live without one!!

Sorry for the rambling unconnectedness of this post.
marty

[loudmusic]

Related to this topic, don't you find it is the people who THINK they know what they are talking about that cause all your troubles?

I have been a victim of, and witness to many occasions where the client comes in with this attitude, i don't know where it comes from, but they really believe they are "special". That they are some second coming of christ. They always suck, and they always treat you like an idiot. Most recently, this guy kept raving about this awesome compressor an Alesis "2630" that he suggested I use??!! THis same guy kept asking why I wasn't using "powertools"!! THankfully he was just checking my place out, I made sure to quote him a special rate (twice what I usually charge people). If he'll pay me that..... I guess I'll suffer through it, and just keep thinking about the gear I'm buying with that money!!!

I wrote a song called "IDIOT FADER" about a client who couldn't live without one!!

Sorry for the rambling unconnectedness of this post.
marty