fretless vs fretted bass tone

[psychicoctopus]

Ok, I play a fretless bass because I dig the growl. At the same time, though I'd love a warm, round Fender-y bass sound for some songs. Which can be tough to mimic with the Cort 4-string fretless I'm using. Pure nickel roundwound strings are sounding waaay better than steel strings, but it still isn't quite as fat as it oughta be. The cool growlyness is there, but it seems like it's lacking fullness otherwise. Like I want more 2nd harmonic?? Is this just a physical difference you're stuck with when playing electric fretless?

O yea, I'm playing through a Carvin R600 into separate 10" and 15" Little Big Sound cabs...

So...we'll be recording a little EP soon and I want the ultimate fretless tone! Does anybody have advice on strings, amps, mics, etc. to warm up a cold bass?

[Brian Brock]

On a typical fretted stringed instrument, both ends of the string are cleanly stopped at a point. On a fretless, there is only one point, and your soft finger pad - so the tone on a fretless is kind of muted. A violin circumvents this problem by repeatedly striking the string as the bow catches and releases it. Players of the Oud (fretless lute) often stop the string by pinching it against the neck. This gives them the sustain and brighter tone of fretted instruments.

As long as your bass is set up well (ie with a slight concave bow in the neck) you should be able to use the oud method to get a more fretty sound.

[takeout]

If anything, you want less harmonic in your signal. The fundamental is where the "fatness" comes from; harmonics add varying levels of brightness and definition. If you saw an improvement with the nickels vs. the steels, keep going in that direction: try groundwounds, or flatwound strings. The further you go in this direction, the more the fundamental is emphasized.

[JES]

Okay, there's lots you can do.

First, there's playing style. Play with the meat of your index and middle finger, play gently and play near the neck rather than the bridge. Instant bigger, softer sound with more fundamental.

As far as strings go, the standard recommendation is Thomastik Jazz Flats. They're brighter than other flatwounds, but have lots of bottom end. Like everything else, they're a matter of taste and they do feel different than other flatwounds or rounds (don't worry about the light-sounding gauges -- they're fine). they're also wicked expensive for strings, but since they're flats, you don't replace them ever. At least, I haven't replaced them since I put them on my fretless Precision (Frecision!). So the $50 or whatever I spent is, over time, less than I would have spent on other strings.

Also, I have no idea what kind of pickups you've got on the Cort, but that could be another issue. My old Ibanez Roadstar just didn't put out a lot of low end thump.

In general, you get more fundamental going direct than micing a cab. You can always do both and blend the signals and EQ them. I've done that and cut the lows out of the miced signal and used only the lows from the direct.

Of course, then there's the DI/pre/EQ, etc.

Finally, there's the issue of the Fender sound you're after. If it's a P-bass, there's not necessarily a ton of low end -- it's all in the mids. If it's a J-bass, then that depends on if we're talking froont or back pickup.

Hope something in here helps.

Best,
--JES

[Brian Brock]

Players of the Oud (fretless lute) often stop the string by pinching it against the neck. This gives them the sustain and brighter tone of fretted instruments.

As long as your bass is set up well (ie with a slight concave bow in the neck) you should be able to use the oud method to get a more fretty sound.

I should have said that Oud players pinch it against the neck using the fingernail. This gives them a more precise, and hence more sustainy, more ringing tone.

[psychicoctopus]

As far as strings go, the standard recommendation is Thomastik Jazz Flats. ... they're also wicked expensive for strings, but since they're flats, you don't replace them ever.

Thanks for the heads-up on the Jazz Flats. Is there a market for used strings? I tend to break the E and the A after a month or two - too many thumb-bashing power chords!

Finally, there's the issue of the Fender sound you're after. If it's a P-bass, there's not necessarily a ton of low end -- it's all in the mids. If it's a J-bass, then that depends on if we're talking froont or back pickup.

Man, you know the bass riff from the Zombies' "Time of the Season"? That's the kind of glassy uber-tone I'd like to have at my disposal AND still be fretless. The fourth note of that riff just sings with harmonics.

[takeout]

Man, you know the bass riff from the Zombies' "Time of the Season"? That's the kind of glassy uber-tone I'd like to have at my disposal AND still be fretless. The fourth note of that riff just sings with harmonics.

Ummm... I think you are mixing up your terminology here. Just because a note swells and sustains doesn't mean there's a lot of harmonic content coming off the strings. That riff was likely recorded on a hollow-body bass with flatwounds, one of the least harmonic-laden combinations ever. What you're likely hearing is tube amp overdrive fuzzing it out ever so slightly.

To sum up: Zombies tone = flatwounds and overdrive. Palm muting a little helps too.

Also - if you have a damp basement, leave your bass down there when you're not playing it. The strings will age in dog years.

[JES]

As far as strings go, the standard recommendation is Thomastik Jazz Flats. ... they're also wicked expensive for strings, but since they're flats, you don't replace them ever.

Thanks for the heads-up on the Jazz Flats. Is there a market for used strings? I tend to break the E and the A after a month or two - too many thumb-bashing power chords!

Um, I break a lot of strings too and haven't had any trouble with the Thoms, even on my crappy Fender stock bridge. BUT, used sets occasionally pop up on The Bottom Line, which is the bassists' list: http://www.magpie.com/tbl

One other note -- you can try other flats, but the Thoms are VERY different from any other flat I've played.

Best,
--JES

[psychicoctopus]

Ummm... I think you are mixing up your terminology here. Just because a note swells and sustains doesn't mean there's a lot of harmonic content coming off the strings. That riff was likely recorded on a hollow-body bass with flatwounds, one of the least harmonic-laden combinations ever. What you're likely hearing is tube amp overdrive fuzzing it out ever so slightly.

Right, I'm on it. If a bass is overly harmonic-rich it would sound like a twangy baritone guitar (or Korn!). When I think of pure fundamental bass, I'm used to the bass in dub music, which is usually down in the super-low register and very sine-wavey. Go up an octave or two and keep the strong fundamental, and there's the Zombies! Thanks for droppin the k-nowledge.

Anybody know the harmonic recipe of the classic Fender bass tone?