plug in compression vs real deal

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by chriss » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:28 am


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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by I'm Painting Again » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:43 am

I would try different mics on the overheads first..a pair that takes the edge off the cymbals with a 10 or 15db pad on maybe..I think comping the overheads to disk/tape is a risky thing to do..you may end up screwing it up at first..but i think also eventually you can get it right..so its not a completely terrible idea..i think a lot of plug ins sound better than the RNC..the 1176 plug in is good, the waves r-comp, etc. Save for the stereo distressor..word up..

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by Dingo » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:48 am

If you must go with software compression buy a UAD-1 card. You can get them for about 500-600 and they are far and away better than the waves plugs. I think you could also get two UAD-1 cards for the price of a waves bundle. The sound quality of the UAD-1 is so much better than waves you'll piss yourself. I also heard the new fairchild compressor (for the UAD-1) at AES yesterday. You'll probably want to set some money aside for that too! It's only 150. I don't think you could get waves to laugh at you for 150.

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by antilog » Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:20 am

jp wrote:i need a cool comp for overheads and im looking for a few ideas. i could buy the real deal or was also thinking about buying a few plugins. (maybe the bomb factory vintage bundle) i run dp3. will drop a grand on this. thoughts?
I see a lot of replies about not tracking with compression, which I see JP never mentioned using the compressor while tracking.

To all:
What are your theories / aesthetics for smashing drum overheads? I will try it to hear, as I am mixing a hard rock project now. On this project I have doing light compression (1.5 ratio, maybe -3db GR) with a side chain EQ'd to compress the drums but not the cymbals / high hat.

What attack/release settings do you use for drums, OH's?

Erich

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by chriss » Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:07 am

ON DSP CARDS
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.n ... 740048F6D0

If the kit is miced properly and in a good sounding room, I really DO NOT like any compression on the over heads. Even for very heavy bands I want the listener to feel like they are standing in front of the kit feeling there hair move because the drummer hit the cymbal really loud. Now I usually use a front and back mic on the kick and I compress the crap out the front mic, I also compress the snare mic a TON! The over heads need to sound el-natural!

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by Lazy_Q » Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:29 am

Eh, I believe in limiting or heavily compressing the transients on the overheads, but I think it should be subtle (or not in effect) unless the drummer is really loud (or smacks the mic).

By the same token, I'm a digital kid, for better and worse. It's all plugins for me. I don't believe in smashing anything to tape (though limiting can help with S/N), and even if I did have a Distressor (which the costs more than my microphone collection), I'd run uncompressed tracks out to it and re-record it onto another track. Of course, to have it not suck, I need some better A/D/A converters, but all things in time.

also, thanks all for the advice on plugins.

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by I'm Painting Again » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:37 pm

I would add that tracking the drums to a tape machine before going digi seems to be great..smooths out the highs adds natural compression and binds the drum sound into a nice tight package..

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by Slider » Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:22 pm

distessors are great. but they're MONO!!! and if your doing stereo overs your going to drop a lot of cash. if your on a budget, grab a focusrite PENTA
for 350 bucks. cooler than plugins and super cheap. and stereo with a free mic pre.
although i do like the blue tubes bundle, waves, vintage warmer ect. for stuff as well. oh yeah. the db technology dynamics plug in is a good cheap aggressive comp as well.

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by chris harris » Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:40 pm

chriss,

the first prorec article you referenced, comparing software compressors, was written in 1999.

the second prorec article you referenced, on dsp cards, was written in 1998!

times have changed quite a bit.

no matter how hotrodded your mobo/processor, there are simply no native plugs that do what the Universal Audio plugs and some of the TC Powercore plugs do.

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by chriss » Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:59 pm

yes times have changed a bit, my point of the first post was this quote

"Overall impressions were favorable. Digital compressors have a sound of their own: none. That's not exactly true, but the worst compressor in this review is as good as any $500 compressor you're going to find anywhere (with one exception - the RNC Compressor). The best software compressor is as good as any hardware compressor you've ever heard. And if your goal is deep compression with the least harmonic distortion, or signal-level maximization, then digital's the only way to go."

Second, DSP has gotten better but so has native processing. This is the quote i stand by

" So if you're one of the people in the business that has to have it all - and has to have it now - then the upcoming wave of DSP solutions is for you. Be prepared to spend some dough. And be prepared to be passed by your peers in a few years. And - be prepared to be blown away - because some of the new DSP systems are AWESOME!

If you're like me - and you would rather dump $3000 into a new mic and preamp, not a new soundcard, then just keep waiting. The market knows what we want. Maybe it will get there sooner than we think...."

Thats all, UA and Powercore plugins are great. I will stick with a faster cpu every year. I just think money better spend is mics and pres, something you will have for 20 years!

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by chris harris » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:16 am

but, my point is that I've had the UAD-1 now for a few years....

I've still got a 1.4 GHz cpu, and I've been using the 1176, La2a, and Pultec plugs for two years now...
meanwhile, all of the "faster cpu every year" guys are in the 3 Ghz range and still waiting for a native plug that even comes close to what these things do.

the part of the outdated article which reads "be prepared to be passed by your peers in a few years" is the part that makes the whole article look like a bunch of short-sighted BS.

The fairchild plug is coming out soon. Having had an opportunity to use plugs of such a high quality that they'd still eat a modern cpu for lunch, I'm more inclined to buy a second UAD-1 for $600, than a faster processor for even half that.

When host cpu's get fast enough to handle plugs as intense as the UAD or Powercore plugs, then the DSP vendors will improve their own designs and bring you new plugs that won't be able to be run native for a few more years.

If anything, DSP users will ALWAYS be ahead of the curve as far as quality goes.

The UAD-1 is the best $600 I've ever spent on pro audio.

peace.
chris

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by chriss » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:37 am

First off the dsp cards are actually slower then modern cpus. Powercore and UAD cards are just a fancy form of copy protection. I would be surprised if the UAD card was even a 1 GHz CPU. http://www.oxygenhose.com/pages/reviews ... s/uad.html
Bomb factory can run natively and I think they out do UAD, I just am not buying the DSP argument, there is not much you can?t do once you learn how to REALLY use the waves pack, then use the nomad factory or the PSP stuff for some color. The UAD pack does sound very nice however.

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by tiger vomitt » Mon Oct 13, 2003 8:48 am

as i understand it oxygenhose has become sort of a lap dog for bomb factory, so take anything he says with a grain of salt. read his review from that point of view and you'll see what's up.

it's just as easy to harp on how difficult it is to use a large format console. or a 16 track 2" deck. if one were to focus in on all the things that make even the best gear a little odd, you could easily form a bad review of it.

im not saying that what he's saying is true or false. just understand O2 may have his own agenda.

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by chris harris » Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:12 am

chriss wrote:First off the dsp cards are actually slower then modern cpus. Powercore and UAD cards are just a fancy form of copy protection. I would be surprised if the UAD card was even a 1 GHz CPU. http://www.oxygenhose.com/pages/reviews ... s/uad.html
Bomb factory can run natively and I think they out do UAD, I just am not buying the DSP argument, there is not much you can?t do once you learn how to REALLY use the waves pack, then use the nomad factory or the PSP stuff for some color. The UAD pack does sound very nice however.
please tell me that you don't seriously trust this jackass for information!!!

for christ's sake, he uses the word "gay" to describe one of the cons of the UAD-1!!!

hell, erik's ridiculous cries for help all over audio forums, where he's been banned most everywhere he shows his face, is a clear sign to me that his plugs just don't hold their own against the UAD.

I've never used the BF plugs and wouldn't. I rarely do business with a company who's owner runs his mouth and acts like an ass as much as this clown.

The review was so wrong it's not even funny.

I'm not trying to sell you on DSP cards.
That doesn't help me at all.
but, if you think that the Waves stuff sounds just as good as the UA plugs, then I will be careful with whatever advice you have to give in the future.
Hell, you could get 2 UAD-1 cards for the cost of a Waves bundle!

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Re: plug in compression vs real deal

Post by tiger vomitt » Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:02 pm

i think BF plugins absolutely do hold their own against UAD plugs. they sound different and both sound really good. it's not an issue i think.

the BF bundle costs $2500-$3000, the UAD costs $600, plus another $300 if you trick it out. BF is run by a jackass and UAD is run by UA (one of the more awesome companies in audio). and there are PLENTY of waves plugins that sound great and are plugins i rely on every day i work.

all the stuff is good ya know?

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