Is it The Dynamic, or the 57 ?

[alanfc]

Hello all-

For my vocals I have been experimenting with all the mics in my large collection (one other mic, the MXL V67), and found my SM-57 to sound great for my voice. Thicker sounding and and syrupy sweet (?!), and great for my voice, it totally helps me. I'm actually pretty thrilled.

My condenser is too thin and too "real" for my voice. Is this the nature of the dynamic mic compared to nature of a condenser mic? Or is it uniquely the SM 57?

My next buy is going to be a higher grade model that could give me the same coloration (aha thats the word I was looking for) as my SM-57 but better. Or maybe the -57 is all I need.?

Anyone have any recommendations on mid-high end mics with this thicker sweeter character? Dynamic, condenser, ribbon, tube, whatever.. I'd hope for under $500 or so but I'm open to anything.

thanks

Alan

[endofanera]

You may wanna look here -- http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=3214

There have been LOTSA threads already on "best X mic" that you're gonna wanna read through.

[wing]

My condenser is too thin and too "real" for my voice. Is this the nature of the dynamic mic compared to nature of a condenser mic? Or is it uniquely the SM 57?

well I'd say it is uniquely your voice first of all. As far as dynamics go, some may find a 58 to be great on their voice over a 57, or even something like an EV RE20 or whatever is best for them. there is no one mic that is uniquely good on all voices, so while the 57 is uniquely good on your voice, a 57 may sound terrible on another. in the end, it's all a matter of taste... but there is nothing in the nature of condenser vs. dynamic mics that makes condensers sound too thin or too "real" in comparison. So if your question is that is it uniquely the 57 that sounds good on your voice and not due to the fact it's a dynamic, then i would say yes, it is unique the 57 and has nothing to do with the fact it's a dynamic. because as I said, some other dynamic or even condenser may sound great and "full" on another person that sounds not so good on you, thin and too real.

i hope that helps, sorry if i confused you even further...

[soundguy]

alan-

a "good" mic will not always give you "good" results on the human voice. Some people just have very particular voices which are suited to very particular mics. It just may be that the best mic out there which compliments your voice in the ways you like best might be a 57. Of course you can spend $7K on a mic with a fat tube in it that will color it way more, but you know, you might not even like it.

I work with a singer who really sounds incredible on a TLM103, however I would not describe the 103 as an incredible mic. I only keep it because it suits this dude best.

If you are planning on upgrading mics, while everyone's advice is helpful, if you are buying it specifically to record your voice, it would serve you best to take a listen before you threw down cash. You can take your $500 and buy a great mic, but the possibility definitely exists that you may prefer the 57 in the end.

Also worth considering is the lower output of the 57 compare to an average condenser. The 57 will make you sing differently than the condenser which sounds more "real" to you. You'll also have the gain set higher recording vocals with a 57 that you would with a hotter output condenser, so this can be another source of coloration. So it might not even be that the mic sounds better on your voice, it just may be that your performance is better on that mic because you have to work harder to get the air out of your lungs, so in the end, the track sounds better. All these elements add up together in the end. This is fairly common to see in the studio, especially with singers that dont have tons and tons of time recording vocals in studios with headphones on. A lot of times, vocalists can get very intimidated by a "good" sounding mic, and it inhibits their performance. I have had more than two singers complain that it sounds too good in the cans.

whatever sounds best off the tape, you know?

dave

[alanfc]

Also worth considering is the lower output of the 57 compare to an average condenser. The 57 will make you sing differently than the condenser which sounds more "real" to you. You'll also have the gain set higher recording vocals with a 57 that you would with a hotter output condenser, so this can be another source of coloration. So it might not even be that the mic sounds better on your voice, it just may be that your performance is better on that mic because you have to work harder to get the air out of your lungs, so in the end, the track sounds better. All these elements add up together in the end. This is fairly common to see in the studio, especially with singers that dont have tons and tons of time recording vocals in studios with headphones on. A lot of times, vocalists can get very intimidated by a "good" sounding mic, and it inhibits their performance. I have had more than two singers complain that it sounds too good in the cans.

whatever sounds best off the tape, you know?

dave

Indeed I have both the in and outputs on my preamp higher than I do for my condenser. I am definitely holding off on mic shopping now though. At this point I really should try things before I buy, like thoroughly. I'm happy with the sound, and now I beginning to think I'm lucky I can make myself happy with a 57 ! (for now)


thanks for the notes everyone

[ape32]

Something that can make a 57 extra fun is the "Presidential" windscreen (as seen on many a executive branch podium). Made by Shure and known as the A2WS-BLK.

It does make the Chris Spencer "eat the mic" trick harder to do, but can make a 57 more user friendly for a singer.

[alanfc]

thanks ape-

would my common circular pop filter rob me of any good frequencies?

[tomasz]

i worked with this punk band few times in the past and the singer insisted on singing into sm57...worked well. Last time we took more time recording.We wanted to polish things up a bit and make it sound more "pro" than street punk. We tried 414, Gefell, sm7 (highly recomended by other engineers) but we ended up going back to a good old 57. seemd to work best for his voice in this particular material.
If you look into many live recordings, I believe quite a lot of vocals are actually tracked live (not overdubbed later in the studio) with a use of a regular dynamic mic...sounds quite all right, doesn't it.....
By the way is it true that sm7 and sm57 are same mics just in different body ??? They look much different and sound WAY different...or is something wrong with my old sm7?

[cgarges]

I find the V67 to be an incredibly bright mic (a characteristic shared by lots of modern Chinese condensers). I also find it somewhat annoying for most vocalists.

If you're really jonesin' to check out some other dynamics, some typically pretty great ones to look at are the Sennheiser MD441 and MD421 (the 441 is a little better suited for vocals), the EV RE20, the Beyer M88 (although this mic can be a bit bright, also), and the Shure SM7.

My favorite modern $500-ish condenser is the AT4050, which sounds great on lots of stuff, although I've heard from a couple of sources that the 4040 (without multiple polar patterns) is an even better vocal mic. I also like the 4047 and BLUE Baby Bottle for certain male vocalists, although the BLUE can be a bit bright also.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Piotr]

The Sennheiser 421 can sound pretty rich and full on vox...I like that whooshy sound of Sennheiser gear.

I agree with the perspective that the singer has to be able to work for it. It is common to overload the mic pre, even just a little bit, tracking vox because the singer will instantly get louder. Better to back off your levels, especially with the condensor mic. Find the best sounding 20 or 30 dB range that will accomodate your vocalist. Don't be afraid to peak, but if it's too hot your vocalist may end up fighting the urge to belt out and perform!

[ape32]

thanks ape-

would my common circular pop filter rob me of any good frequencies?

Probably not - but the Prez just looks cooler and can be used to horrify any politically sensitive people who might also chance to sing into it.

[soundguy]

that shure windscreen will definitley take off some top end for sure. They come in all kinds of neat colors though, I went all conservative and got the tan ones. But they are really cheap, its just a piece of foam, certainly not an item that gives you the impression that hours were spent on designing it to pass HF very well.

dave

[NewYorkDave]

I find the V67 to be an incredibly bright mic (a characteristic shared by lots of modern Chinese condensers). I also find it somewhat annoying for most vocalists.

Funny, I was reading a bunch of opinions on the 'web yesterday that stated the exact opposite--e.g., it supposedly has a warmer and less strident top-end than other Chinese LD condensers. I guess "YMMV" is never truer than when talking about mics!

[AnalogElectric]

There are a few I'd suggest:

SM7 - a great overall mic. Robust.
SM58 - slightly different character from the 57...more clarity.
ATM23HE - somewhere between the 58 and 7. Natural, clear, but not as gloomy as the SM7 or low-mid bump like the 57/58.

Soundguy again reminded me of a particular mic that only works for one guy's voice. I bought an AKG SoilidTube when it first came out and I didn't find one thing it was good for except for vocals for a friend of mine (Blues musician). We were trying for the Tom Waits-ish airy yet intimate compressed vocal sound and the ST did it for him. I wish I had other uses for the mic but I don't. It's not worth selling cuz I can't get much more than a couple hundred for it and since my friend comes to record every 6 months or so that's the only other reason I keep it around. Okay now shoot to a couple months ago...my friend came in again for his recent record and we ended up using the RCA44BX as opposed to the AKG ST. Now I really have no use for the ST. I believe I've tried the ST as a 2nd kick drum mic and/or backing vocals for other groups but it falls flat on it's face. What a peice of junk mic.

Sorry if I got a tad off topic...let me finish with a few more ideas...

If the 57 works, it works. Sometimes I hate to admit some things work better than others and some singers are kinda bummed when one 'sub-standard' mic works better than a high priced mic. I'll be doing a session and during initial drum/guitar/bass tracking artists will ask, "ooh, what's that mic over there...is that what we'd be doing vocals with?"

I'd respond, "That's a [bla bla bla] mic. We could try it for vocals, it works for some people. It all depends if it translates to tape correctly for the singer"

Sometimes it will be a U87, 44BX, or 563 and other times it would be a 57, 58, 7, or 23. I'd have to say the one I use the most is the SM7 for vocals recently. Combining mics is something I'll do also. I'll have a SM7 close up (3-6 inches from the singer) and the U87, 44BX, or 563 elevated behind the SM7 a good foot or more. I'll compress the further mic to match the volume of the SM7 and slightly pan each mic during mix to taste (observing phase).

I'd try (if you have enough tracks to work with) using two mics; the 57 up close and the V67 at a distance to fill in the other frequencies and work as a natural room doubler. The distance mic also works well EQ'd, compressed, and lower in volume. I'll even squeeze the high mids from the distance mic so it almost sounds 'telephony' just to cradle the guitars in the mix, smearing in th vocals so they don't stick out too much from the guitars.

I hope that made sense. It's allowing time for experimentation and what you're ultimately after. Sure buying a new mic will fuel you but really it sounds like you have some good things to mess around with already (placement and whatnot).

Good luck,
--Adam Lazlo

[alanfc]

Wow thanks this is great info, really cool.

That V 67 was starting to make me think I had a voice with incurable defects. I'm glad/sorry other people had a similar reaction to that mic on their voices.

I am limited to a 24" wide, 31" long, 5ft. 8" high homemade vocal booth. The 2nd distant mic method won't work there but I may start using my V67 to do my human doubling (voice, that is). I've been working a bit on that- thats been a tough one.

thanks everybody