Mixing and mastering classical music

[trashy]

Does anyone here do that?

I've been spending a bunch of time listening to classical music lately. And not the artsy-fartsy cold war kind. I've never really been into it, but I'm running sound on a play (no orchestra) and we wanted music, so I've been going through stacks of it. I can't believe how quiet and LOUD it gets! WAY more dynamics than any rock I've ever heard (and I've heard everything.) There are times when the woods will be playing and it will be like the guys are just blowing through their horns- just these light light light breezy sounds, not even notes really. And then WHAM!, and your eardrums are bleeding because you were straining to hear those tiny sounds a second before.

How are the recordings recorded, mixed and mastered? I'm thinking about volume here. When I'm at home mixing something, I'm concentrating on the "middle" or "body" of the sound. The peak can do what it needs (it usually hitting the limiter a bit.) But I try to get enough volume in that middle space. Classical seems to not be concerned with that middle space at all. The peak is right before clipping, and the lowest sound is right before inaudible.

Of course, (since I'm not a fan) I'm not sure how much of this is due to recording techniques and how much is writing/performance related.

Anyway, I'm not sure what I'm asking. I guess I've been inspired, and I'd like to hear opinions from other people in and out of the know.

[jerrymac]

Does anyone here do that?

I do some of that stuff. I usually don't tell the rock clients about it. I don't tell the classical clients about the rock stuff, either. Probably 1/3 of my recordings are classical.

I've been spending a bunch of time listening to classical music lately. And not the artsy-fartsy cold war kind. I've never really been into it, but I'm running sound on a play (no orchestra) and we wanted music, so I've been going through stacks of it. I can't believe how quiet and LOUD it gets! WAY more dynamics than any rock I've ever heard (and I've heard everything.) There are times when the woods will be playing and it will be like the guys are just blowing through their horns- just these light light light breezy sounds, not even notes really. And then WHAM!, and your eardrums are bleeding because you were straining to hear those tiny sounds a second before.

Yeah, they were positively psyched when CDs hit the market. Theoretically more dynamic range, no surface noise than vinyl/cassette/etc... I say theoretical because if I quote a number some vinyl purist will beat me to death.

How are the recordings recorded, mixed and mastered? I'm thinking about volume here. When I'm at home mixing something, I'm concentrating on the "middle" or "body" of the sound. The peak can do what it needs (it usually hitting the limiter a bit.) But I try to get enough volume in that middle space. Classical seems to not be concerned with that middle space at all. The peak is right before clipping, and the lowest sound is right before inaudible.

My experience is with upper mid-level orchestras (the players are mostly pro musicians) right down to local kids looking for a demo for music school and crappy civic orchestras. I usually record stereo: two matched Lg. Dia. cardioids in a ORTF stereo pattern right behind the conductor and a little above their head. If need be, there might be a spot mic on a weaker instrument or section. Once in a great while I'll records the stereo pair and spot mics to multi-track, but usually only if I think it's going to be too difficult to mix on the fly. I don't think I've ever used more than 8 mics total, and that was a tough one. Some people record the stereo main pair differently, there are many ways to do it. Two figure eights in a Bluemlien Pattern (that spelling might be wrong) or spaced omnis, etc. You are totally on about the dynamic range, usually the recording has to reflect it. They want a natural "you are there" feel to the recordings. Sometimes you can play the limiter game to make the quiet parts a little less quiet, but you got to strive to not kill the range too much or they will notice.

Of course, (since I'm not a fan) I'm not sure how much of this is due to recording techniques and how much is writing/performance related.

The musicians and the conductor (if they are good) are playing what's on the score. If the conductor is good, he/she can get the musicians to play very quiet for the very quiet parts and then slay you with the loud parts. Sometimes it's not fun to be trying to record this when you set the peak level at soundcheck, and then the orchestra came out for the show considerably louder. You want that peak to be right at 0dBfs (digital zero), and you want those rests in the quiet parts to be infinity dB.

Anyway, I'm not sure what I'm asking. I guess I've been inspired, and I'd like to hear opinions from other people in and out of the know.

I like to think that the classical recordings keep me sharp, and inspire me to do other things when recording the rock stuff. Or maybe it helps me with arranging stuff, too.

jerry macdonald

[Bear]

This is interesting stuff. I listen to classical music more than anything else, and hearing about how it's done is always a treat. I really like the amount of dynamics they have in the recordings and it's something I've taken to heart. I don't compress or limit many of my recordings for that very reason. I want a quiet part to be quiet and something loud to be LOUD. Everything down the middle can get boring.

[joeysimms]

Anything on the Mercury Living Presence series (what a name) sounds marvelous. 3 mics, direct to 35 mm film, no mix, no eq.

[AnalogElectric]

I listened to classical music when I was a kid before listening to rock and pop. When I worked at record stores in the early 90's I was the classical 'expert' donning red spiky hair and tattoos. I notice a lot of subtle differences between performers, engineers, format machines, mics, and rooms used. I don't record orchestras but I do know a few things from reading about and listening to it.

Digital recording seems to be the best for classical music due to its dynamics. When a part is quiet you don't want o hear a noise floor or necessarily tape compression when things are loud. Classical recordings are not over-mastered and I notice most recordings rarely come close to zero. I'm amazed and somewhat put off when a Yanni album will mic each individual meaning 172 tracks. If I'm listening to (especially) John Williams recordings with a full orchestra and choir it's inspiring with minimal mic'ing. Even with 5.1, 6.1 surround techniques for film there's still less usage of that technology when tracking orchestras. A composer knows how to use instruments dynamically and I doubt they have much problems of one Oboe being too loud if you're paying that person X amount of dollars to get it right.

I'll still see U47's, U87's, U67's, B&O's, etc... placed the same way that they have been for decades.

--Adam Lazlo