Need career advice from all of you that do this for a living

[dungeonsound615]

Im kinda in the same boat, i live in Chicago I have done two internships both of which i learned a little bit more about how a session is run than actually how to set stuff up or how to use a compressor correctly. I also went to a recording school and think i got ripped off really just tought me the basics and left the rest up to me to figure out. Now im trying to figure stuff out on my own such as the proper way to use compression, using subgroups that kinda stuff and i'll be honest it makes me think would a internship help me out in learning this stuff or am i just going to be making coffee again and fetching food(i know this is a part of being an intern im not dumb) and not really learn what i want to be learning. Also iim now recording out of my house and making a little money here and there and i think im doing all right but like it was mentioned how does one move up from recording the smaller bands to the larger acts or local bands that may be on a label so to say. i really dont want to be recording mediocre bands in my basement for the rest of my life.
Mike

[googacky]

this wonderfull world of recording that we're all in is a risky place if you're looking for it to pay the bills. i'm about to have my first experience relying on recording earnings for part of the rent. a friend and i are moving our gear together in a house that'll be a recording-first-living-space-second sort of arrangement; and we'll need studio money to complete the rent requirements. it's a risky thing to do, but it'll be quite a leaning experience if it all works out. and if it crashes and burns, we'll learn a ton about the business of recording anyway. we've enjoyed a modicum of sucess already in our current space simply through word of mouth. every project seems to bring in another. perhaps it's just that st. louis has no end of crappy bands to record. my advice is to just give it a shot on your own. i'm doing it backwards. i've been recording bands on the side for money for awhile now, and now i'm feeling the desire to intern and hone my skills (if i indeed have any yet) in a supervised environment. you already have that experience, so see what happens with a space. find a few like minded people with some gear and go for it.

[loosegravel]

I'm a self taught kid with many years of bedroom-battle experience and I am getting ready to transfer to Columbia in chicago for audio next year. Ive been looking all over Cleveland for a decent internship, and have a few nibbles.
I'm always a little worried that people dismiss audio school graduates because perspective employers believe these kids have a degree and no personal drive. I have goddam personal drive and I'm going to school for audio because I love it and can't imagine doing anything else. I hope I don't get lost in the fray of idiot graduates who couldn't tell their ass from a hole in the ground about making and recording music. Oh well.... I'm a creative and resourceful kid and I imagine I can figure out some way to make a living in this field.

Henry

[wayne kerr]

many years of bedroom-battle experience

Dude! I thought they only did that kinda stuff in West Hollywood! Hardcore!

[dungeonsound615]

Being a graduate of columbia college myself i kinda want to say find an internship and buy gear with the money you woudl save. Dont get me wrong i learned stuff there but really these people are not teachers and they dotn unederstand how to explain things very well. i think you may benefit more from interning and working yourself.
just my two cents
mike

[The Gibbon]

Just my opinion, but I think many people are letting themselves get down on the possibilities in the industry. It's a fact that today is surely not the best time to open a large format studio exclusively to record bands....heck the labels seem to be in a funk (name excuse here....) it's harder to get distribution deals, the economy, more people simply record at home, etc... But there is a huge market for people with the right skills to work in the commercial side of the business...such as television, movies, commercials, jingles for radio. However I think thats where reputable, qualified schools come in. Alot of this kind of work can be done at home with a quality set up without all the trappings of a large studio ($)....Don't get me wrong, I'd like to record bands full time, however I need to pay the bills too! I think if you look around at all the possibilities in the field, you may be suprised at what you find.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Once again, another person with a similar problem. I'm also 22, and also didn't attend an audio school. I'm living in NYC, where you'd imagine there would be tons of oportunities. But what i've found is that the market is so flooded it's impossible to get an internship doing anything but fetching coffee. On top of that, in the large markets it becomes harder harder to find "cool" studios. I can't think of a single studio I know of in New York that is consistantly releasing interesting, creative sounding records (if you know of one I'd love to hear about it). Most places are too busy trying to meet the bottom line.
Right now I have my small home studio setup, and since I'm in a New York sized apartment I made sure to keep everything portable. I've been trying to travel around new york and to philadelphia recording bands who I like the sound of. It's not making me much money (especially since I turn all of my cash over for new gear), but I feel like I'm learning.

What I really feel like is that I'd be learning much faster if I had some sort of mentor. I'd love to be working with someone who interests me in what their doing. Should I move to a slightly smaller city? Or do I just keep doing what I'm doing and hope people like my work?

[Recording Hobbyist]

I'm going to post here only because I've been in several studios my friends have recorded in and can say with all these experiences, a studio is just a motel room with maids. I've heard some good mixes and some others that were not so good. The equipment was good everywhere but the overall product was noticibly different from studio to studio. Everyone runs a tight ship. Impressive all the way. No George Martins but the bands aren't the Beatles. The owners all live a pretty casual middle class lifestyle, as it appears (I'm sure bills are pilled up) and it's back to work to record some shit band after another that arn't going anywhere. The owners are usually subsidising this whole operation through radio commericials and remixes. It's not that glamorous and the locals can't afford a whole lot. It's heavily saturated by choices of what studio to record at. I see the only way someone can achieve any finanacial status is to "do it by themselves". There just isn't enough money floating around to join an established organisation and support a family. Learn all you can learn as an intern then do it on your own. I record better stuff in my living room than most struggling bands can't get out of a studio money wise. Especially now that computers process higher speeds and can create CD quality stuff for next to nothing... This is a dying empire. A studio is either smoke and mirrors or a kind of nice motel guests can spend the night in. I'd feel sorry for some kid knocking at my door to internship with me because I recorded the Box
Socials or someother band I've recorded by just doing it. That kid would be a coffee runner or a get this and that at radio shack type of resource. No money here man.... For me it's for fun. I'd love to make a living doing it but I'd never work for someone in hopes they'd promote me so me and my gal can get a bigger place to live.

Get a humble amount of equipment and run a cool ad in your newspaper. Get a website and go to town.... If this is how you want to make a living and your not sure how to do it, get a Tony Robbins course and make it happen!

[Dot]

For those of you who are looking to get your foot in the door towards a career in audio engineering, you will find that getting your foot in the door will become a way of life for you if you're to have any chance of success working as an independent in the recording industry. You need to get into the mindset that YOU are the one who makes things happen. You have to become an entrepreneur. To not diversify is death. If you only expect to engineer, you're already behind the curve. If you own some good gear, that helps. If you can play an instrument or two, that's even better. If you're out there in the clubs and know artists and bands and can get them in to record, that's another big plus. If you can produce, another feather in the possibility hat.

If you went to one of these "audio schools" to get a "degree", and have to repay thousands of dollars of "financial aid", you're most likely dead meat already. Having hired and trained interns for years at New York City studios, I never met one person who went to one of these audio "colleges" who had learned more or could do more than someone with no "audio degree" who had drive and desire, some music background and who buried themselves interning in a good commercial studio for a couple of months.

And "interning" at a commercial studio is not about sitting around and reading magazines. Be proactive everyday. Treat the studio like it's your own business ? because it is your business! Look for anything to do: straighten cords, make duplications, take notes for the engineer, check every connection in the studio individually and make sure they're optimum, straighten the mic cabinet, dust the furniture, take out the trash, straighten up file cabinets, and clean out dirty and cluttered areas. Make constructive use of downtime at the studio, because that is really the "deal" you're making by interning for free. You're not really working for free. You're working in exchange for access to what is often very expensive studio time. You get to use the studio! Start a simple project ? anything! Get a friend who plays guitar and sings to come in and cut some tracks. Finish something so you can play a CD that's an example of your work. Once you can do that, you'll be the one who just might get hired to do some of the simpler sessions.

Be prepared to record some crap bands, because face it, you're going to be a crap engineer for a period of time until you hone your chops and can start attracting better clients. And never underestimate the power of a crappy band to be just the people who save your ass during a slow month.

The best possible scenario is to invest in some gear and start offering your services ? for free if needed in the beginning. At the same time talk your way into a good studio and work there for free ? or what little they may offer you ? and soak up as much as you can. Even the business side, marketing, looking for clients, cold-calling clubs [ who have contacts to bands ] and any company who might possibly use any service the studio offers. You will find that if everything works out that you will be in the position of offering different sets of services to clients with different budgets.

And don't expect the studio to hand you work. Part of earning your keep there is you going out and finding session work. If you've got a small system and you run into some $20/hr-type clients, then you take them to your place. If you run into some bigger dollar clients then you take them to the big studio. Everybody wins. Make a deal up front with the studio owner that you get a 10% sales commission ? in addition to your engineering fee ? for everything you bring in to the studio.

Engineering is up there with modeling as far as any guarantees for a real career. And you better be prepared for some lean times, because they will come. And you better be prepared for the very real possibility of having your significant other get so sick of waiting for you and having dates fall through ? because you were "tied up at the studio" ? that they finally get fed up and leave your ass.

If you're young you have the opportunity to go to a real four-year college ? do it! Chances are good you will often be broke or close to it as an engineer. No sense in being broke and dumb.

As a freelancer you will never have any guarantees when you're getting paid work. And that's why it's important to always have your own projects you can be working on during your own time. You may work five paid days in a row, and then have nothing until something comes along two weeks later. You will be at the mercy of the client: If they schedule until 12am at night and they want to go until 6am ? you do it. You will be a sound slut for hire at an average rate of $20/hr. And that's when you're actually engineering, not just assisting or interning. And don't go off to do your career math by multiplying $20 X 40 thinking that you could live on $800 per week, because much of the time you'll never make anything close to that. You'll have times you'll be lucky to make $800 in an entire month.

Be prepared to live long stretches with no health insurance. Life as an engineer is life lived without a net.

The only reason to try and engineer as a real gig, is because the desire burns in you so much that you really have no other choice. If that's the case ? then you are a true artist, and you might actually have a shot. The only reason to engineer is because when you step inside a nice studio full of gear your dick gets so hard you become single-minded and want to do nothing else. Anything less than that ? take another road.

[Recording Hobbyist]

My gawd, Dick, you've got me ready to intern!

You hit on some notes I'd like to emphasize. Become active in the music community. Go to local shows. It helps ALOT if your in a band. Networking is what it's all about. Know the band members of all the bands you enjoy by name. Talk to them. If you have the gift of gab, they will become your allies. Get as many allies as possible. Everyone of them want to record. Record them for free.

Build a website Howard Hughes would be proud of and start name dropping. List clients you've done. Name drop. Make local compilations of bands you feel worthy of being involved and record them free. Give away stickers. Build a reputation and get the name around. As long as you remain active, time will build you up if you're good.

5 years from then, you're acknowledged. Maybe working out of a strip mall studio in some delapitated neighborhood. You're on your way. Alot of money managment issues to be aware of as Dick pointed out, good time and bad times. Longevity is an asset. Est 1984 recorded Sonic Youth, Meat Puppets, Dionasour Jr. blah blah blah looks better than Multi Million Dollar Studio recorded Kenny Logins, Crystal Gayl and countless other boring acts most Multi Million Dollar studios boast about.

As Dick said, drive and determination, knowledge and experience rule. With confidence and some time wrapping cords and fetching coffee (watching how the pros prepare to avoid meltdown and how they deal with it impending), the lifestyle can become rewarding. It's all smoke and mirrors my friend. All smoke and mirrors.

You're one up on me in that I've never wrapped cords or made coffee as an intern, but I know what I like, soundwise. I listen to what people are doing and try to improve upon it. Love to listen to music and acknowledge great sounding bass lines, drums, pauses, crushing guitar, vocals that cut through the mix. I'm just a music nut who loves the SOUND.

I haven't worked fast food for over 15 years. Personally, don't envision myself engineering in the manner of all these posts. I do what I want. I work a day job for a major corporation and won't compromise music, ever. The model as stated in this post is the most ideal model for someone I'd go to to record my next band. It's a working model, works for most independent studios and if I ever make it as a musician I want some like me to record it. I still go to McDonalds for the big mac but music is a different issue. More personable. Got to mingle. Got to be part of the scene.

Good Luck!

[Recording Hobbyist]

Sorry, If success is wiping the spittle off Dave Mathews mouth or wraping cords during a Hootie and the Blowfish session, I'm way off base. Keep scrubing toilets and making coffee then.. I'm being an asshole but if your not musically inclined, change your focus!

[Bob Olhsson]

Our industry is all about trust and about who knows what you know.

I'd find out where there's a hot live music scene. It could be a town or it could be a school but that's where you need to go hang out and get to know people. Your success will almost always parallel your friends' success. Put yourself in the right place so that you'll be there at the right time.

[Piotr]

The biggest challenge the engineer faces, especially the independent, is gaining new clients. If you can develop the skills to find, get and keep new clients you will be well on your way. The key is to provide the best service at the lowest possible price while keeping your dignity intact. You can raise your rate as you get more successful, but there will always be somebody faster, better, cheaper.

Or you will lose out to other engineers because the bands know them and not you. Get out there and mingle. Make friends and you'll start to get gigs by virtue of being known. Of course you have to do good work, but it's a balance of many things that will keep you afloat. Overall, you aren't going to have an easier time in any other industry so get used to it!

[Recording Hobbyist]

Wish you the best of luck. I'm excited the whole operation of recording/mixing. With fresh bands springing up every year it's a bountiful harvest that just keeps on going. Tons of opportunity!!!

[chemicalpink]

Learn protools, learn how to set up tape machines, see if you can get in
one of the few ssl rooms in detriot (as an intern) and learn all the auto-
mation, learn wiring/patch bays. if you know enough, some one will need
you in a pinch. If you don't know much of this stuff right now, you
may have to go to school, but real world, hands on learning is much
better if you ask me, you can intern at my 2" 24trk studio if it will
help, but I'll be wiring a ssl console (in detriot) for a week or two
so it may be a while before I get back with you.