sup all-
i'm wondering how the pro assisting game works - if there even is such a thing. i'm sure it's different in every market...i've extended toilet-boyed at a couple operations but they closed shortly after i left and the other places i've been have been one man or DIY type places...which i dig but i'm looking for something "more." i can get a bigger room going myself but i dunno if i want to go that route...i would like more experience before plaguing the world with another studio...or perhaps i'm being impatient with my own thing.
anyone do this without being the toilet boy and being "hired on"? is that the only way to do this? is it kosher to call up engineers and say - "hey i like yer work can i assist on yer sessions?" without being 'in house'? i've seen a lot of good info on what is required of a good assistant...but what's the protocol on getting in the chair next to the chair? i'm certain if i got in that chair i'd be great at it and i'd pick up more skills...
i dunno - i guess i'm trying to trade up the DIY 8 track deal and am at a loss on how to do it... and perhaps it's not even possible to do without doing the move to NY/LA thing. any suggestions/comments welcomed, appreciated and fondled fondly.
Mike
assisting
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Re: assisting
who you know, or who is willing to let you get to know them. period.
dave
dave
Re: assisting
hey thanks dave... yeah networking thing understood...sorry if my question seems odd ... i'm outta the loop...again, i've done tons o' home stuff and a bunch of DIY studios...but not the pro places...to you it's probably like asking if mcdonalds serves burgers.
are there dudes who travel around assisting? like as a 'gig?' or are there 'one off' gigs that people go for the same way people sort of go for recording jobs...(eg shit i'd love to record that band and network til you know abunch of bands and are recording non stop) or are they strictly in house things above the DIY level...
thanks...
Mike
are there dudes who travel around assisting? like as a 'gig?' or are there 'one off' gigs that people go for the same way people sort of go for recording jobs...(eg shit i'd love to record that band and network til you know abunch of bands and are recording non stop) or are they strictly in house things above the DIY level...
thanks...
Mike
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Re: assisting
Mike-
Ive never assisted at a commercial music studio, so take my advice for what it is.
I think you get two very different kind of assistants out there. Guys that are hired by the house, who know the house, deal with the house and can expediantly get whomever comes into the studio around on the gear, around in the room and possibly around inside the politics of the place. If you are out of town producer or engineer, or whomever, sometimes this kind of assistant is the greatest thing in the world.
Then there are assistants who work as a team with an engineer. These are guys that have worked together constantly and can totally anticipate each other and a good team like this is a thing of beauty to see.
You've got to ask yourself wether you want just a gig at a studio running a room, or wether you want to be part of a team effort as the path you'll take will be a little different. Getting a job at a studio is pretty self explanatory, but becoming an engineers right hand is a whole other process. A good assistant is the most amazing thing on earth, and I know Im a terrible assistant. You have to put your self in a position where the engineer you are working for is doing a better job because you are there. Not so much so the guy depends on you to get the job done, but the job is just done better because of the team effort. this takes studying habits, studying ethics, and being able to anticipate every little thing, and of course, every engineer is totally different... If you can find someone who is powerful enough to request his own assistant and get it and that guy is actively looking for someone, chances are if you have halfway decent skills he'll train you, I've trained all of my work partners in the past and I've been trained by all the mixers I've worked for. I definitely come from the school of having the same guy assist me constantly, or working for the same guy, the end product is always so much more worthwhile than having to figure out a whole new personality from job to job to job, but often for financial or political reasons, you cant always bring your own guy along, or be brought along when the guy you help out gets a gig.
You can always tell the long time partnership from far away. Never talk of how to do things, but just simply when to do what needs to get done. That kind of relationship is really where I find the joy of recording. Half the time, if Ive got to explain to someone what I want, its usually just faster or easier to do it myself.
Where's Jeff, I rememebr him saying he was an assistant on some really big records, Im sure he'd have a more articulate explanation of the studio biz for music, which is slightly different from the film world I am accostomed to.
dave
Ive never assisted at a commercial music studio, so take my advice for what it is.
I think you get two very different kind of assistants out there. Guys that are hired by the house, who know the house, deal with the house and can expediantly get whomever comes into the studio around on the gear, around in the room and possibly around inside the politics of the place. If you are out of town producer or engineer, or whomever, sometimes this kind of assistant is the greatest thing in the world.
Then there are assistants who work as a team with an engineer. These are guys that have worked together constantly and can totally anticipate each other and a good team like this is a thing of beauty to see.
You've got to ask yourself wether you want just a gig at a studio running a room, or wether you want to be part of a team effort as the path you'll take will be a little different. Getting a job at a studio is pretty self explanatory, but becoming an engineers right hand is a whole other process. A good assistant is the most amazing thing on earth, and I know Im a terrible assistant. You have to put your self in a position where the engineer you are working for is doing a better job because you are there. Not so much so the guy depends on you to get the job done, but the job is just done better because of the team effort. this takes studying habits, studying ethics, and being able to anticipate every little thing, and of course, every engineer is totally different... If you can find someone who is powerful enough to request his own assistant and get it and that guy is actively looking for someone, chances are if you have halfway decent skills he'll train you, I've trained all of my work partners in the past and I've been trained by all the mixers I've worked for. I definitely come from the school of having the same guy assist me constantly, or working for the same guy, the end product is always so much more worthwhile than having to figure out a whole new personality from job to job to job, but often for financial or political reasons, you cant always bring your own guy along, or be brought along when the guy you help out gets a gig.
You can always tell the long time partnership from far away. Never talk of how to do things, but just simply when to do what needs to get done. That kind of relationship is really where I find the joy of recording. Half the time, if Ive got to explain to someone what I want, its usually just faster or easier to do it myself.
Where's Jeff, I rememebr him saying he was an assistant on some really big records, Im sure he'd have a more articulate explanation of the studio biz for music, which is slightly different from the film world I am accostomed to.
dave
Re: assisting
shit dave - perfect answer...you are the man...thanks - i don't get to see the shit you see - so i really appreciate it. in my world i've assisted on diy stuff...with great guys too...but it's informal...and i have folks assist me on my stuff - but i'm talking hunky dory level - more the stuff you may get into actually - stuff with a budget of over 155 dollars plus beer...
...anyone else would be awesome as well...or any folks who have been assistants on bigger jobs...stories? advice?
Peace and thanks again...
Mike
...anyone else would be awesome as well...or any folks who have been assistants on bigger jobs...stories? advice?
Peace and thanks again...
Mike
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Re: assisting
Oh joy, it's the assisting question!
Get into a big studio in New York or Los Angeles. Ask yourself 3 things, "Am I interested in Film? Am I interested in Records? or Am I interested in video/post production?" Deciding before you begin your resume mailing will help direct your efforts. Plan on sending out 100 resumes. Get the gig. Do the gig. Do it well. Do it better than anyone else.
To studio managers, it's those mundane hours of running that weed out those who seriously want to pursue a career in engineering. I've known many runners who never aspired to be assistants. I've known assistants who never aspired to be engineers and those are two types of people that really slow down the process. In my first professional studio gig as a runner in fall of 1990, I was in the control room more than the assistant was. Who do you think the engineer called on more? I wasn't as techinically adept as the asisstant, but I was around and very willing to learn everything I could AND be helpful. Engineering is a complex task and you need to be around it to absorb EVERYTHING. One of the most amazing professional engineers I've seen is Brian Schueble. He came through A & M Studios and he reads a session so well that they move flawlessly and he barely speaks a word in the process. A cool efficiency. He moves ahead of the producer anticipating where they are going. There is a tremendous amount of etiquette you learn as an assistant that has much to do with when to speak, what to say and how to be thinking ahead of the engineer. You need to really get familiar with the professional recording process. You need to learn to be able to hear when a drum take 'happens'. You need to be able to know what certain combinations of gear sound like. You need to know which of those Neumann U87 microphones sound best.
If it's not a top flight studio you're working at, you're education is going to be limited. An 8-track reel to reel studio is not going offer near the education that a major 5 room facility would.
Soundguy is right too. Once you're assisting in a large facility you'll probably begin to work with people who come back to the studio on a regular basis. Those repeat clients nearly always get paired with the same assistants they had on previous visits- if they had a good experience. The assistant can present a mood of cool confidence or of complete incompetence.
Over many sessions, this means you'll probably start to take on more responsibility from the engineer you've worked with so much. For the engineer, it's about trust and ensuring that the assistant not only knows the equipment, but has similar musical vision as well. That's a gray area. For much of the mid-90s I was an assistant at Master Control in Burbank California where I worked with Scottish producer, Gavin MacKillop on over 20 projects. He was a repeat client and we had very similar views on music. Others I worked with repeatedly were Jim Scott (before he went 'Neve' and began working at Cello), Joe Chiccarelli and Neal Avron. Through Jim Scott, I met a manager and began getting engineering work from him. Management can be a good thing and a bad thing. This particular manager was skewed in the alt country domain, so much of the work I was getting was in that genre. I now find my own gigs.
My best advice for you is to get to a large market and get into a studio that is a multi-room, major label driven hub. Meet everyone. Know all the studio managers. Be able to call them through being friendly and persistent.
At this time, I would probably shy away from approaching any individual producers or engineers now with the level of experience you have. As an assistant you will be in the same room with the engineer for likely 12 to 15 hours a day. At that point, it's all about personality and vibe and you will invariably get paired with someone and start sharing album credits. That's a whole other topic! LOL.
Get into a big studio in New York or Los Angeles. Ask yourself 3 things, "Am I interested in Film? Am I interested in Records? or Am I interested in video/post production?" Deciding before you begin your resume mailing will help direct your efforts. Plan on sending out 100 resumes. Get the gig. Do the gig. Do it well. Do it better than anyone else.
To studio managers, it's those mundane hours of running that weed out those who seriously want to pursue a career in engineering. I've known many runners who never aspired to be assistants. I've known assistants who never aspired to be engineers and those are two types of people that really slow down the process. In my first professional studio gig as a runner in fall of 1990, I was in the control room more than the assistant was. Who do you think the engineer called on more? I wasn't as techinically adept as the asisstant, but I was around and very willing to learn everything I could AND be helpful. Engineering is a complex task and you need to be around it to absorb EVERYTHING. One of the most amazing professional engineers I've seen is Brian Schueble. He came through A & M Studios and he reads a session so well that they move flawlessly and he barely speaks a word in the process. A cool efficiency. He moves ahead of the producer anticipating where they are going. There is a tremendous amount of etiquette you learn as an assistant that has much to do with when to speak, what to say and how to be thinking ahead of the engineer. You need to really get familiar with the professional recording process. You need to learn to be able to hear when a drum take 'happens'. You need to be able to know what certain combinations of gear sound like. You need to know which of those Neumann U87 microphones sound best.
If it's not a top flight studio you're working at, you're education is going to be limited. An 8-track reel to reel studio is not going offer near the education that a major 5 room facility would.
Soundguy is right too. Once you're assisting in a large facility you'll probably begin to work with people who come back to the studio on a regular basis. Those repeat clients nearly always get paired with the same assistants they had on previous visits- if they had a good experience. The assistant can present a mood of cool confidence or of complete incompetence.
Over many sessions, this means you'll probably start to take on more responsibility from the engineer you've worked with so much. For the engineer, it's about trust and ensuring that the assistant not only knows the equipment, but has similar musical vision as well. That's a gray area. For much of the mid-90s I was an assistant at Master Control in Burbank California where I worked with Scottish producer, Gavin MacKillop on over 20 projects. He was a repeat client and we had very similar views on music. Others I worked with repeatedly were Jim Scott (before he went 'Neve' and began working at Cello), Joe Chiccarelli and Neal Avron. Through Jim Scott, I met a manager and began getting engineering work from him. Management can be a good thing and a bad thing. This particular manager was skewed in the alt country domain, so much of the work I was getting was in that genre. I now find my own gigs.
My best advice for you is to get to a large market and get into a studio that is a multi-room, major label driven hub. Meet everyone. Know all the studio managers. Be able to call them through being friendly and persistent.
At this time, I would probably shy away from approaching any individual producers or engineers now with the level of experience you have. As an assistant you will be in the same room with the engineer for likely 12 to 15 hours a day. At that point, it's all about personality and vibe and you will invariably get paired with someone and start sharing album credits. That's a whole other topic! LOL.
Re: assisting
thanks jeff! and thanks dave for the jeff lead in -
yeah i guess the major market thing is very important? i won't let it hold me back but yeah i do see it as a very limiting factor not being in a big market...the place where i interned was as big as this town has/had...not too huge but they did some big records there before closing - they wanted to hire me but it wasn't feasible $-wise...and then i did the work at 'smaller studios' around town thing and i did radio as thats my degree ...but i know i want to do records...music... you know - same thing as everyone else. i've been doing it diy since 96 and i love it but man - that "next step" - what is it?
are there certain "requirements" for that guy who you would recommend call individual engineers? I know there is no map - but generally? is the big studio assist job usually the pre-req? or is just having connections it? see i feel very comfy with the process, people skills and studio assist skills...but i wouldn't know cuz my comparision is kind of small time in comparision...an educated hayseed.
everyone is opening small 24 track + studios - perhaps i should make the dive - though i'd rather learn from the old school / professionals though...you know - get my ass kicked but come out on top! haha...the world is going/has gone DIY and i want more lab coat...i went DIY out of sheer necessity and want more...i'm starting algebra tuesday as a pre req to electroncs courses in the fall...i guess i'm about to get my asskicking wish...
Sorry for the blab- thanks for both y'alls time...i really do appreciate it -it's really helps me out... any more comments/ advice welcome...
Mike
yeah i guess the major market thing is very important? i won't let it hold me back but yeah i do see it as a very limiting factor not being in a big market...the place where i interned was as big as this town has/had...not too huge but they did some big records there before closing - they wanted to hire me but it wasn't feasible $-wise...and then i did the work at 'smaller studios' around town thing and i did radio as thats my degree ...but i know i want to do records...music... you know - same thing as everyone else. i've been doing it diy since 96 and i love it but man - that "next step" - what is it?
are there certain "requirements" for that guy who you would recommend call individual engineers? I know there is no map - but generally? is the big studio assist job usually the pre-req? or is just having connections it? see i feel very comfy with the process, people skills and studio assist skills...but i wouldn't know cuz my comparision is kind of small time in comparision...an educated hayseed.
everyone is opening small 24 track + studios - perhaps i should make the dive - though i'd rather learn from the old school / professionals though...you know - get my ass kicked but come out on top! haha...the world is going/has gone DIY and i want more lab coat...i went DIY out of sheer necessity and want more...i'm starting algebra tuesday as a pre req to electroncs courses in the fall...i guess i'm about to get my asskicking wish...
Sorry for the blab- thanks for both y'alls time...i really do appreciate it -it's really helps me out... any more comments/ advice welcome...
Mike
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Re: assisting
i'm not really sure if i'm gonna say anything different from what anybody else has already said,but......
i got into studios as teaboy,at matrix studios in london.by working hard and being keen i progressed to be an assistant there.it's true that if you work with someone,and get on well with them then they will ask for you again when they come back,and if they work a lot they may ask you if you are available for work elsewhere,especially if you have a particular "something" to offer,like being a pro tools genius.this is kinda what happened to me.some of the studios in london don't have a full time set of assistants,but have an "on call" pool of people.that way they can keep there overheads down,only paying people when they have a gig.if you are good,then you get the calls.
i moved to work at sony studios in london,and was able to get some of the people that i had worked with before to come and book time there.
i don't know,i can't really explain how to do it,other than if you have a bit of an idea what goes on in the studio,how to behave and you have a sense of humour.....i mean,it really is the best way to learn how to make records.i got some engineering gigs with some of the bands that me and the engineer/producer worked with a lot.just demo stuff,but they knew that because i had worked with john a lot,and knew how he got his sounds,i could do a good job and was also a lot cheaper!! i think this is how a lot of people get there start,there's a whole list of people out there making records who were someones "apprentice",who knows how they get the sounds that made them famous and who can work when the big guy is busy,and for a lot less........
you'll probably need to go to a big city,L.A.,New York,Nashville,somewhere that has a whole bunch of studios....it's funny,man,i worked at this studio in new york state,Allaire,and we did the last tim mcgraw record.not only did they bring a full road crew,but also two engineers,two assistants,the producer and HIS assistant.all the guys who were the assistants work freelance,but mainly with this same team.what i'm trying to say is that it can happen,the pay off being that it's normally on something horrible that sells a gazillion copies where they have the budgets to do that kinda thing.....
i got into studios as teaboy,at matrix studios in london.by working hard and being keen i progressed to be an assistant there.it's true that if you work with someone,and get on well with them then they will ask for you again when they come back,and if they work a lot they may ask you if you are available for work elsewhere,especially if you have a particular "something" to offer,like being a pro tools genius.this is kinda what happened to me.some of the studios in london don't have a full time set of assistants,but have an "on call" pool of people.that way they can keep there overheads down,only paying people when they have a gig.if you are good,then you get the calls.
i moved to work at sony studios in london,and was able to get some of the people that i had worked with before to come and book time there.
i don't know,i can't really explain how to do it,other than if you have a bit of an idea what goes on in the studio,how to behave and you have a sense of humour.....i mean,it really is the best way to learn how to make records.i got some engineering gigs with some of the bands that me and the engineer/producer worked with a lot.just demo stuff,but they knew that because i had worked with john a lot,and knew how he got his sounds,i could do a good job and was also a lot cheaper!! i think this is how a lot of people get there start,there's a whole list of people out there making records who were someones "apprentice",who knows how they get the sounds that made them famous and who can work when the big guy is busy,and for a lot less........
you'll probably need to go to a big city,L.A.,New York,Nashville,somewhere that has a whole bunch of studios....it's funny,man,i worked at this studio in new york state,Allaire,and we did the last tim mcgraw record.not only did they bring a full road crew,but also two engineers,two assistants,the producer and HIS assistant.all the guys who were the assistants work freelance,but mainly with this same team.what i'm trying to say is that it can happen,the pay off being that it's normally on something horrible that sells a gazillion copies where they have the budgets to do that kinda thing.....
If it's not distorted,what's the point??
Re: assisting
cool beans matt- thanks...picture doing the new country! EEEEEEEE 
Mike
Mike
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