all the ppl who track one instrument at a time

[jdsowa]

All of you folks out there who track one instrument at a time by yourself. Do you ever end up tracking drums then bass and then finding that the 3rd thing you wanted to fit in like piano won't fit in the mix AT ALL!?

Anyway, that's what happens to me. My drums are from Planet A and my piano is from Planet B. They refuse to work together. I'm using the avenson omnis on the upright and it's the only usable sound I've ever gotten on there. With the drums I'm using a variety of things and I have a little more flexibility there with the way I can mic things, add reverb, etc. I think from now on what i'm gonna do is record the piano first and then record the drums and adjust them to fit in with the piano. But, yeah, this can be the most frustrating thing in the world. Anyone else share my pain on occasion?

-Jesse

[meblumen]

I do quite a bit of solo work and I run into similiar problems, sometimes sound A doesn't mesh with sound B, sometimes the part I wrote for one instrument doesn't mesh with another. What I find, atleast for me when I'm working alone, often times I have to do alot of scratch tracks, redo things, erase and rework others to get everything to sit the way I want. I always start with a click track as well as a really basic drum track to make sure my performances are on par, and to make editing them a bit easier later on (in case you haven't guessed already I work in the digital realm which I think also helps). From there I just add tracks, sometimes having to take something away or rework something to fit. Its probably a combination of my own obsessive perfectionism and the fact that I'm working alone, but it takes quite a bit longer for me to finish my solo stuff then when I'm working with a band or someone else.

[cyrusjulian]

Are there just drums and piano in the whole song? I tend to have several layers of guitars and other weird sounds over the drums and bass (and keyboard occasionally) and I usually try and wait until I have all the ingredients before I start analyzing each sound. Who knows? Maybe that piano might sound weird with the drums with just those two tracks but maybe after adding vocals and bass, might be the perfect compliment. I dunno, just a thought.

Good luck!
Cyrus

[Bear]

Happens to me all the time. I usually add lots and lots of instruments to songs, and some of them not very common. Sometimes they don't mesh at all. Adding a different instrument entirely usually solves the problem, but not always. At times, nothing short of reworking the song and starting over will work. But something that this stuff has taught me: I've gotten much better at doing all the arrangements mentally and adjusting them occordingly before I even pick up the instruments. It's a slow process, but I improve all the time.

So I do feel your pain on this, but it gets easier the more you do it. Just don't be afraid to destroy the song and try it a different way if it isn't working.

[Bear]

Its probably a combination of my own obsessive perfectionism and the fact that I'm working alone, but it takes quite a bit longer for me to finish my solo stuff then when I'm working with a band or someone else.

Ditto. I've been working on this solo project almost daily for nine months now. The Cd before this, which I did with a friend, took two.

[joeysimms]

Its probably a combination of my own obsessive perfectionism and the fact that I'm working alone, but it takes quite a bit longer for me to finish my solo stuff then when I'm working with a band or someone else.

Ditto. I've been working on this solo project almost daily for nine months now. The Cd before this, which I did with a friend, took two.

Ditto.

And Ditto.

[red cross]

I usually find it's a question of arrangement rather than any sort of recording technique. Sometimes parts that sound right together in your head just sound like crap in reality. Just gotta change em. Sad fact of life! We all can't be Phil Spector ya know...

[marqueemoon]

Just don't be afraid to destroy the song and try it a different way if it isn't working.

Exactly. Although it definitely sucks to have to scrap your work and start over, you learn so much from each experience like this.

I agree with the comments about arrangements. If you have a strong song to work with everything else falls into place. On my last project I did about nine tracks of arrangements for 6 songs before I wrote a single lyric. I'm happy with the way it turned out but, I realize now how difficult I made things for myself.

[justinf]

Most of my songs begin on piano, so what has worked best for me over time is to record piano with a click initially, then drums, then re-record the piano to best fit the drums. Then I layer in all other instruments after that.

This works for me because I'm a better piano player than drummer, but can usually get a good feel going on the kit. YMMV>

[Meriphew]

I normally scratch out the arrangement pretty well on a little 4 track before I go to HD as a final cut. That seems to work pretty well for me, though I do occasionally have to re-work/re-record a part.

[joel hamilton]

"I usually find it's a question of arrangement rather than any sort of recording technique. Sometimes parts that sound right together in your head just sound like crap"


That hit it on the head. I just keep perspective, and I dont get bummed out if something isnt working. Try something else!

I have seen people come up with great, great things in the studio when they realize the rhodes isnt working, and switch to hammond, or something totally different.

The right voicing for a valid harmonic structure is as important as the part itself!

[Bear]

Although it definitely sucks to have to scrap your work and start over, you learn so much from each experience like this.

Definitely. On this current project I scrapped a song and started over four times before I was finally happy. And even though it was a total pain in the ass and incredibly frustrating, when I listen to the song now, I don't want to change anything about it. It sounds "right" now, so I see it as a worthy trade-off. But that's also why this has taken me nine months (my baby).

And something I think everyone should do is play with other instruments. example: try writing a song on guitar and transferring the chords to a piano. How much a song can change with such a simple action never fails to blow me away. I mostly write on an acoustic because it's what I'm most familiar with, but often times, it sounds more inetersting somewhere else.

And I've also learned not to judge sounds until I've got them all in place. How you mix a song can (and probably will) make all the difference in the world.

[spiral]

Could be a question of arrangement or the fact that there isn't any bleed. I've never had any issues of not mixing well though, but that's probably cause i have terrible taste. Try running stuff to the same reverb so they all kinda get soupy together. Are you close micing everything?

[coniferouspine]

Yeahhh, I've had similiar problems, where everybody else was really happy except for Mr. Bass, who sounded like he was sitting grumpily in his little cubicle off to the side and not playing with anybody else -- sounded like an overdub made ten years later in a studio in another country. What I ended up doing in that case was compress the bejesus out of the whole final mix, way more than normal, as much as possible, and ya, it helped. Mr. Bass was now squished right in there with everybody else...I think my problem was waiting to do the bass after the guitars caused some kinda frequency stackup/mash thing that made Mr. Bass sound dull...I wonder if maybe your piano and drum kit are clashing frequencies somewhere...try listening to your finished mix and figure out what is not coming through on the piano, and change the drums accordingly. Or vice versa. You may end up with a drum sound that sounds less good on its own but works in the mix.

OR...and maybe this would be way too much work...but if you really like Mr. Piano sound and it's central to the song, and you think it's Mr. Drums' fault when they don't fit together in the final mix, and you can't get them to work at all, you could maybe try tracking a "very scratch" drum track for tempo etc., then the piano, then the other stuff, and then go back and re-record the drum part over again at the end, with an ear towards getting a drum sound that fits it sonically all together at that point; tweak the second drum sound at recording so it fits exactly in your mix. If you're analog, after you've got the second drum part, then you can wipe the first set of scratch drums and use those tracks for final vocals. It's ambitious but it's an idea. I know a guy who did a song on his album that way, all analog and with real orchestral overdubs (!), it took a lot of time but the 2nd drum track came out totally awesome, because the drummer didn't have to worry about tempo or basics, he could just go for it full throttle with the full mix of orchestra and everything blasting in his headphones (which I imagine most drummers very seldom get to do!), and my friend was able to "tailor" the drum sounds going on tape to fit the mix and let all the other instruments have their space. A lot of this depends on whether you are recording your magnum opus of all time or if you're just recording a few tracks for fun, two sets of drum tracks may be more hassle than you want to fool with.

+ + + + +