Anolog guy wants a 24 track hard disk, Maybe?

[Electro-Voice 664]

I've been using out board mic pres with a Tascam MSR16 (mixing on a mackie 24/8) and wanna get a 24 track Hard disk machine to use with certain projects. Can someone tell me is the TascamHD better than the MackieHD, do they both suck? I'd like to be able to edit as on a DAW but computers freak me out (and I'm poor). Also any tips on hooking both a hard disk recorder and the analog machine so I can swap info and use both on tracking and mixing? Thanks for any help!

[psychicoctopus]

I was just about to start a similar thread when I read this. Can anybody speak the virtues of the Alesis HD24, Tascam MX2424, or the Mackie unit? The Alesis seems to stand out to me as a well-designed and nicely priced piece of gear.

[chemicalpink]

I would buy the alesis or the tascam, the alesis for the price, the tascam
for the name (reliability) they are gonna sound very similar and with out-
board converters exactly the same. the cool thing about these units is
the only part thats really gonna fail is the hard drive and thats easy and
cheap to fix. and track down. unlike a analog deck, I only record on
analog at the moment, but my partner uses protools and sync's
it up to our mci jh24, he prints a rough mix on 2 tracks of the
daw and cuts alot of the vocals and the stuff that is punch and comp
heavy on protools, then when it comes time to mix he fires up the analog
beast and runs all the stuff through a big fat desk onto 1/2"
and it sounds pretty rad, its a cool way to join the dark side.
I was thinking about doing the same thing with the alesis hd
thingy.

[Randall]

Why would anybody want a stand alone HDR when DAWs are at a point now that they are reliable, sound badass, have all the effect processing capabilities, you cant stick a UAD 1 in an HDR, screw a bunch of FTPing as well, I dont know of one that can track 24 at 24/ 96K HDRs are dead and stinking news now, like ADATs were last year, go for the DAW, the learning curve aint that bad, try any easy prog like Sonar, you already got an MS16, man send those tracks to your DAW, edit etc. Mixdown to a tape machine or something else, if you want to do your own mastering Wavelab is not that difficult. Im waiting on these personaly, the specs on the converters rival the Lynx2 series, the pre's are clean and awsome, AES/EBU and analog I/O as well as SPDIF and Miid and wordclock sends, 32 analog I/O on 1 card,XP or OSX compatible, screw an HDR, what more could you want? http://www.esi-pro.com/viewProduct.php?pid=8&page=1

[psychicoctopus]

screw an HDR, what more could you want?

mobility? 3 or 4 rack spaces instead of a PC or mac, desktop or laptop whatever. A little box that does its thing with reasonable transparency, without Win XP or OS X, software updates, mouse, monitor, crashes, etc...

Alesis has a 24/96 option on the HD24.

I mean, I'm not scared of DAW's, I use them often, but goofy software issues can get in the way of progress. Huh. In some cases, I'd probably end up dumping the tracks from the HDR to a DAW for editing. I'm just looking for something solid that I can run all over town cutting tracks with.

[soundmaniac]

mobility? 3 or 4 rack spaces instead of a PC or mac, desktop or laptop whatever. A little box that does its thing with reasonable transparency, without Win XP or OS X, software updates, mouse, monitor, crashes, etc...

Yeah right on, I hear that. I used to have a DAW setup built around Cubase and after many, many hours of changing buffer sizes and screwing around with settings to try to get all the glitches worked out, I gave up and got rid of it.

I?ve been kicking around the same idea lately, too- getting a HD recorder to supplement my MX-70.

Though I?ve never used any of them, I?d be willing to bet that the converters probably kind of suck on the Alesis and Tascams (as they do on most adat machines). I would think the Mackies would be a step up, anyone have any experience with them?

There was that Andy Hong post awhile ago where he said he uses a Tascam HDR to just to store the info, but all the conversion is done through his Sony digital board. That sounds like a good idea, only I would probably just opt for some really nice outboard converters to use in front of it, rather than getting a digital mixer.

Anyone else use the cheaper HDRs in a similar way? Or would it be a better idea to save up for a high-end recorder, that already has great converters, like an IZ Radar? (I?d be saving for a very, very long time, though I?m sure those are really nice)

[chemicalpink]

just being able to hit record, no files to lose and all the related computer
bull shit, plus the damn stand alone hd recorders are so small you
could carry the thing around, but wait what about a fire wire laptop
talk about fucking cool to think now days you can have a lap top rig
for 5k and throw it in a back pack with the power of a million dollar
studio of the 80's aint gonna sound as cool but the power is fucking
amazing now a days, its all fucking cool, but people come to me for
my analog shit, damn.. I don't know.

[psychicoctopus]

Anybody know if monitoring latency is an issue with HDRs?

[cyrusjulian]

Hey, I might actually be selling my Alesis HD 24 if you want a used one (great product, just need the cash) A few months back before I bought the Alesis HD 24, I did a lot of research on the diff HDR's and if you decide to go with the Mackie ones, make sure you don't get the cheaper model as I believe there were still some software issues that had not been corrected. Basically certain features were still not available. That might have changed by now but just keep that in mind. Somebody here also said that one of the HDR's had the ability to have virtual tracks which is a feature that the Alesis HD24 does NOT have. I also agree with everybody here who said that they're more portable and easier to use in comparison to DAW's (at least for me) Set up just like a tape recorder and it also comes with that LRC remote control thing. Really handy when you're recording yourself. I guess if you only recorded at home, a DAW might suit ya, but I really like the Alesis HD24. And you can hook it up with your existing hardware mixer too. I personally like the sound quality. At the same time, I haven't done a lot of computer based recording either.

[chemicalpink]

well since most people would be using (hopefully) a analog
console for monitoring there is no latency, unlike a daw because
of the digital "cue" mix of the recorded and live tracks- being monitored?
does this make any sense? like a fire hazard, oops, I mean an adat.

[jon frank]

I have been an analog person for more than 30 years and have had similar needs as Wintershed's in the origional thread. Let me comment with respect to the gear that I have in my studio-- Out board preamps (tube and solid state), Otari multitrack tape and Otari tape mastering machine, TASCAM SX1 (same converters as the 2424 with a HD recorder and mixwer as well as bells and whistles), RADAR hard disc recorder, and Allen Heath Console. I really like the fidelity of the Otari tape machines, but the RADAR HD recorder is so easy to use and I have to strain to tell the difference between the two. There is no comparison between the A/D and D/A converters between TASCAM and RADAR. The RADAR converters rival and on some occasions beat 2" tape. TASCAM converters are good or acceptable they are just not great if you are looking for the holy grail of tone. Mixing tracks on the SX1 is very convenient but sonically doesn't hold the tone and depth that an analog mixer does. The only digital effect that holds the tone and depth that I am after is a Lexicon. I have gone back to analog compression, limiting, and EQ for tracking and mixing. In summary, I have gone full circle. I cut my teeth in the analog world and finally made the plunge into the digital relm.

The only thing that I want that is digital is a good hard disc recorder. I must say that I really like the automated faders on the TASCAM SX1 and have learned to work around the loss of summing tracks digitally by sending each track out of the SX1 seperately through the RADAR's sweet converters to the Allen heath analog console for my final stereo mix.

[jon frank]

I have been an analog person for more than 30 years and have had similar needs as Wintershed's in the origional thread. Let me comment with respect to the gear that I have in my studio-- Out board preamps (tube and solid state), Otari multitrack tape and Otari tape mastering machine, TASCAM SX1 (same converters as the 2424 with a HD recorder and mixwer as well as bells and whistles), RADAR hard disc recorder, and Allen Heath Console. I really like the fidelity of the Otari tape machines, but the RADAR HD recorder is so easy to use and I have to strain to tell the difference between the two. There is no comparison between the A/D and D/A converters between TASCAM and RADAR. The RADAR converters rival and on some occasions beat 2" tape. TASCAM converters are good or acceptable they are just not great if you are looking for the holy grail of tone. Mixing tracks on the SX1 is very convenient but sonically doesn't hold the tone and depth that an analog mixer does. The only digital effect that holds the tone and depth that I am after is a Lexicon. I have gone back to analog compression, limiting, and EQ for tracking and mixing. In summary, I have gone full circle. I cut my teeth in the analog world and finally made the plunge into the digital relm.

The only thing that I want that is digital is a good hard disc recorder. I must say that I really like the automated faders on the TASCAM SX1 and have learned to work around the loss of summing tracks digitally by sending each track out of the SX1 seperately through the RADAR's sweet converters to the Allen heath analog console for my final stereo mix.

[ahmedgarcia]

I use the TASCAM MX2424 with a Mackie 24*4buss. It is very easy but not as portable as you might think. I would not carry it around the park, but you could take it to a band's practice place to record them. It does not do 96k on all 24 tracks but it does on 12. There are different I/O options, mine has the anolog and ADAT card. The converters are great IMO. Here is one for sale from an aquiantence of mine with Euphonix converters.

http://www.planesong.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138

It is not like a DAW per se. It acts like a tape machine then you transfer your files either. I do not think it was ment to be a DAW. But I can transfer into anything for editing. ProTools/PTFree, Cubase, CoolEdit, etc...

The Radars rock as well, I am just not familure with it. Nor am I with the AlesisHD.

Here are earlier threads on this topic. I did not want to retype my opinions again:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 2424#20558

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 2424#11015

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... x2424#9271

and

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... x2424#4377

Good Luck

[Al]

I've been using out board mic pres with a Tascam MSR16 (mixing on a mackie 24/8) and wanna get a 24 track Hard disk machine to use with certain projects. Can someone tell me is the TascamHD better than the MackieHD, do they both suck? I'd like to be able to edit as on a DAW but computers freak me out (and I'm poor). Also any tips on hooking both a hard disk recorder and the analog machine so I can swap info and use both on tracking and mixing? Thanks for any help!

I've used the Mackie, a pile of junk!, cant speak for Tasam or Alsesis, but the Kackie, Noooooo way!!!....stick wi your Reel to reel brother, dont do it!!

[heylow]

I had the Mackie as well....I HATE the Mackie. Not in intuitive in any way....kinda cloudy sounding to my ears.

I got rid of it and got the Alesis. I LOVE the Alesis....VERY intuitive, onboard converters sound great. I've done 2 records and a million demos on it with ABSOLUTELY ZERO downtime, lockups or general malaise except the one time a hard drive went goofy on me....and of course, that's not the machine's fault.

Another thought...Alesis, believe it or not, has been INCREDIBLE about supporting these things....bugs get squashed fast and features are constantly added to the software. They are actually quite interactive with the users as far as needs go.

To answer some other questions:

The reason for the HD over DAW for me is simple...I HATE DAWs. I can't stand working on them....I like hardware. I use the HD24 like I would an analog machine....outboard gear, no stupid people tricks, fingers on faders. I also take my tracks eslewhere to be mixed and the portability and ease of integration is great.

As far as latency...I have never had a problem nor have I felt I heard it or "sensed it during tracking. I've rough mixed to 2 open tracks and left the mix running over the originals....you can hear a shift....of course that would be DOUBLE latency. In my studio, being small and modular, I figure that the latency can't be any worse than big studios running through hundreds upon hundreds of feet of cable, on and off the recorder and and back out to headphones so I wouldn't worry there.

One other thing about the HD over the MAckie.....the HD is VERY friendly about hard drives while the Mackie is a pain in the ass and very finicky.

Also, Mackie is trying to move out of the "stand alone" arena so I'd be leery of future support.

Just my 2 cents.

The entire record linked below was done on the HD24 and mixed at Tiny Telephone, which is an all analog old school facility, and even they had great things to say about the sound of the unit. Analog would be nice but great sound at about 1600 bucks will do nicely for me!


heylow