The LOUD mastering bug has got me.

[psychicoctopus]

Ok, I work at a college radio station, where I record bands and master the recordings for airplay. Every year we put out a compliation CD of the best tracks from our sessions. Some folks have commented that our CDs sound a bit quiet next to commercial CDs. And tonight I was listening while the DJ put one of our recordings on after a serious indie label track, and I was like '... ugh'... over the radio, it just didn't have the volume of professionally mastered material.

So here's the rub. The station has a budget of practically zero for the production department, so paying a professional to master our next compilation is out of the question. I'll be making the most out of these tracks on my own with the station's old-skool protools system (PT 3.8.1!!!) and waves plug-ins!

I've come up with sort of a standard formula that I use on most types of music. Currently I'm chaining together a Ren EQ6, Two Ren compressors, and the L1: I set the first compressor as a sort of AGC, with slow attack and slow-to-fast release, at about 6 dB average compression during loud passages. The next compressor shapes the transients with a quick, grabby attack, and a medium release to get some pumping, averaging 2-3 dB reduction. Then I put in the L1 to set the ceiling, and it's working on the transients only.

The stuff sounds loud as fuck when I'm messing with it, but hell if it just doesn't stand up over the airwaves. WAAAAAHHH!!!! What more can I do??

Granted, we're cutting live to 2-track on a Tascam board. Some of the tracks I'm working on were recorded with no compression at all. Am I correct in guessing that these tracks can never be as loud as something that was mixed with compression on the individual instruments?

you guys rule. happy holidays.

[brew]

i worked for a college station and encountered the same problem from track to track. you know what i did to compensate? turned up the gain! be an active DJ!

maybe people listen to college radio because it does not sound like mainstream radio? are you doing everyone a disservice?

uncompressed sources sound BETTER on the radio than mastered/limited sources.

[Al]

Dont let the loudness bug strike, i much prefer some dynamic and headroom left in my mixes, sounds so much nicer when you let it breath i think.

Al

[Stubbadub]

Ya, everything I record is pretty much for personal use right now, and because I listen to ALL my music through my computer it's easy to get caught up with the limiting game trying to achieve similar volume levels to other commercial releases, but once I start listening to a song I always turn it up to taste anyways since not all songs or albums are the same volume, so let it breathe a little and make the listener adjust to taste. One of my favorite albums Mr. Bungle's Disco Volante is very quiet compared to commercial stuff but once I make the initial adjustment on the first song then the whole album is just amazing because they take such advantage of the dynamic range given to them

[MoreSpaceEcho]

you must ignore the loud mastering trend, for it is evil! eeeeeviiiiillll!!!!!!!

seriously if you're already compressing the tracks 8 or 9 db...yikes. that's A LOT of compression. brew is right about uncompressed sources sounding better on the radio, maybe you're actually making stuff TOO hot, and it's freaking out the radio station compressors, which makes everything seem smaller...

i think that most mainstream records are way too loud and that it's foolish to even try to compete with them loudness-wise. it's tempting, of course, but there's no way to get records that loud without killing all the transients and dynamic, and yeah, it'll be loud, but how's it gonna sound to you in 5 years?

[tiger vomitt]

it's possible your masters are too loud to begin with. sometimes if you take a super loud master and put it on the radio, it'll sound quieter than something with a little headroom. cant say i know why but ive heard this here and there.

[ahmedgarcia]

I have some of those Comp CDs from KVRX. I like them just they way they are IMO. i own Comp two and four, Golden Arm Trio rocks

[junomat]

check out the latest WIRED magazine...there is an article in there saying how compressed more modern pop/rock music is....and how this progression has been more and more pronounced starting from the 70s...

i love WIRED magazine...

[MoreSpaceEcho]

sort of on topic....i got a ride to my folks' house with my brother yesterday, he likes the mainstream heavy music, and we had his cds to pick from. so first we listened to some of the new jimmy eat world cd. and i'm not a fan but i had to admit that the modern ultracompressed supersize production does sound impressive in the car. i was surprised that it wasn't bothering me as much as i thought it was gonna. anyway, after that i pulled out angel dust by faith no more and wow the difference was really dramatic. that's a relatively 'produced' record but it sounded so open and natural compared to the JEW cd. it sounded 'smaller' and not as initially 'impressive', but i mean, the snare sounded like a drum being hit by a guy in a room. the guitar sounded like an amp with a microphone in front of it. i just like that kind of thing better. perhaps i am getting old.

[LEE TYLER]

In my experiments (I am a mad scientist) in my castle, I have noticed that subtle, graduated, calculated doses of multiband compression (at 3 levels) LISTENING........and then more listening.....eq'ing, perhaps expanding things if applicable and gentle hard limit to -.5 DB makes even classic older recordings come to life by keeping the "meat" of the track discernable WITHOUT affecting the punch and dynamics. Great for low-level listening and hearing it all careful not to create a wall of sound. Didja ever get a load outta those ultra-comped waveforms??? Gotta go multiband technique more often than not though. That powerful bass drum and basslines will fuck-pump your single band compressors. ---Lee

[@?,*???&?]

Don't worry, you'll get over it when you actually begin listening to the songs...lol.

[sarth]

Are you asking about mastering for a compilation CD you are going to give/sell to people or for playback on radio?

As far as radio goes, I recently read some explanation of why compressing your mix doesn't help much with radio, something about the crazy compressors a radio station is required to use in order to stay within FCC standards.

As far as mastering for a CD, I really know how you feel. Unfortunately, I think you can only do so much in your situation. Disco Volante may be one good example. Mine is I have Primus' Sailing the Seas of Cheese in my 5 disc player, followed by Lucinda Williams' World without Tears. Everytime the Primus CD ends, I have to rush to turn down my receiver so I don't distort my speakers.

I mean, Primus is a LOUD band, Lucinda Williams is verging on country. But that's how far mastering has grown/changed in 15 years.

So I'm not sure there's much point in trying to compete with any of that, just make it sound the best you can.

-- Sarth

[psychicoctopus]

yes! Disco Volante! Cool record.

Thanks for the opinyuns. I promise not to ruin this CD by squashing the life from it!

I have some of those Comp CDs from KVRX. I like them just they way they are IMO. i own Comp two and four, Golden Arm Trio rocks

Volume 4 totally rules. Disc 2 of Volume 5 is extra cool. I'm working on Volume 8 right now. There are some awesome tracks, enough to fill 2 CDs... but our station manager is pushing us to strip it down to one CD. Ah, well...

[black mariah]

This might sound stupid but...

Wouldn't most of the perceived compressed/limited/LOUD come from the MIX and not the master? I can take a song I've done that's very dynamic and squish the hell out of it and it sounds like ass. It doesn't increase the apparent volume, even after adjusting the output volume so it peaks at -1dB or so.

Take A Perfect Circle's new album. The song Weak and Powerless, to be exact. The first time I heard it was in the car on a freeway and I thought it sounded pretty damn good. On my computer, on my speakers, in my room, it sounds like total shit because somehow EVERYTHING is overmixed to fuck and back. The bass is too damn loud, the drums are too loud, the guitar.... shit, I'm a guitarist and I think the guitars are too fucking loud.

But how many people have said one thing that most people aren't catching?

"It sounds GREAT on the radio!"

Where do most people do their music listening? No, not you. Not your musician/engineer friends either. I mean Joe Spareass that buys Chevelle CD's. He listens to the radio in the car on the way to and from work. Commercial-level CD's just aren't mixed and mastered for listening to at home anymore. They're made to sound good on the radio, fuck everything else.

What I'd like to see happen is bands start mixing and/or mastering an album twice. Once for CD, once for radio.

[vvv]

"What I'd like to see happen is bands start mixing and/or mastering an album twice. Once for CD, once for radio."

I thought that too, back when Zwan and Audioslave were released.

I have often wanted to do "headphone re-mix" releases of my own stuff, also.