Combo Bass Amps

[comfortstarr]

Prior to moving to NYC I sold a GK 400RB and the two heavy and big 15" speaker cabs that went with it. I wasn't planning on gigging out and I wanted to fit all my things into my car.

Well lo and behold it looks like I may be getting into a live situation here. I have way less space than I did in Chicago, I'm older and lazier too. I'm looking at a variety of bass combo amps and would like some info. Having only ever gigged with the GK I don't have much reference. My guess is it'll be used for small clubs mostly and for a bit of recording (with a di).

Speaker configurations
1 x 15, 2 x 10, 2 x 4? Any flowery language around each would be helpful. 4 x 10 gets really heavy (There's an Ashdown 4 x 10 at musicians friend that probably is a deal, but it's kind of big). How does 2 x 10 stack up against 1 x 15? The cabs I had were build from EV plans and were 15" They sounded great. I want something that's going to be very flexible.

Power
If you're playing in a small club, and your band doesn't abuse its stage volume, what's the difference between a bass amp with 150 watts versus one with 250, or hell, 350? A primer on wattage breakdowns in amps would be helpful (I've never understood that very well).

FYI: the amps under consideration (some of which have yet to be heard)
Ashdown--Mag 210, Mag 410, EB 210
Ampeg--b-100r
GK--RB400 x210 combo

I'd read about the Eden nemsis stuff and it seemed like good value, but nobody seems to have them.

[JES]

Hi There,

If you're going to have a single cab and you're playing rock, I recommend 1x15. 2x10 works as a stage monitor but doesn't have enough umph, and 4x10 starts to get big, if your goal is portability. 1x15 misses some of the roundness of sound you get from 10s -- but I really like the grunt of a 15. I tried a lot of 2x10s by themselves and could never get used to the sound for rock. 4x10s and 8x10s sound great but now you're into a lot of size and weight.

Here's a crazy thought: how about getting a good DI, even something like a Sansamp, and a Peavey combo. Peaveys are loud enough because they have comparatively little low end (not a bad thing on stage), you won't have to worry about your amp getting messed up, and they actually distort quite nicely. Run the DI out into the house mains, use it as a preamp if you like as well, and use it for recording. Use the amp as your stage monitor. Cheap, easy and if it gets broken (who ever broke a Peavey?) or stolen, no big deal! Before I had the money for my nice Eden setup, I gigged for over a decade with a Peavey combo. Sounded, well, okay. But many many times I helped out a player with a broken tube amp. And I always cut through thanks to the funky midrange.

That said, I now have an Eden WT-400 (a little clean for my current tastes, but a great head otherwise; I'd probably go Ashdown if I were in the market now; for rock, GK is ALWAYS a good bet as well), a Flite cab with a 15" and a 5" speaker, and a Flite 2x10. They're super light cabs, and sound quite good. If I'm practicing somewhere else, I can bring one cab and the head. If I'm playing a gig where the amp is more than a monitor, I can bring both cabs. Right now, though, I'm recording WAY more than I gig.

Good luck!

Best,
--JES

[Oliver Straus/Mission]

Hey.

This is NYC baby. Most clubs here wont even mic your Amp unless you cry really hard at the sound guy... or if they do it wont make it to the mains.

Most of the Bass players that I know have spent their money on a really great pedal board with a bass sans amp and other cool goodies. Fits in a cab much easier too.

That being said depending on what you're playing I'm a big SVT 4 ten cab fan... any less than 4 tens and the speakers will crap out before the amp sounds fat. I think Eden and carvin both make cabs with 1-15 and 2-10s. Thats a good compramise. As for heads... What do you want to sound like? Bassmans are great and travel well. Combos are tuff.. there always seems to be a compramise somewhere... B-15?

Cheers

[cwileyriser]

I use a SWR Workingman's 15. I have a 1-15 extension cabinet that I haul with it if I know I'll have the room for it.

I'm no tech head by any means, but I love that amp. It kicks MY ass at least.

[AGCurry]

comfortstarr, you didn't say what styles, venues, and volumes you'll have to be ready for. I'd say if you're playing metal or hard rock, a combo amp won't get the job done, unless it'll just be used as a stage monitor and your bass signal will be part of the FOH mix.

The reasons for using a combo amp are: 1) simplicity, and b) ease of transport. A 4-10 combo is going to be heavy. I'll second the recommendation for the SWR WM 15. I have one and it's good, and if I need more volume I'll hook up an extension speaker to it.

The Ampeg B100R is also very good and loud.

The number of watts produced by an amp is ony one of many factors determining how loud you can get. A tenfold increase in amp power yields approximately a twofold increase in volume. My 1964 Ampeg B15-N is loud enough for most gigs I do, and it's rated at 30W RMS. Bassists generally like lots of watts not for volume but for headroom. Just as important is the size and efficiency of the speakers.

It's said that the three things that matter are fidelity, volume, and physical size. Any two of these is fairly easy to get. All three - nearly impossible.

[comfortstarr]

Hey.

This is NYC baby. Most clubs here wont even mic your Amp unless you cry really hard at the sound guy... or if they do it wont make it to the mains.

I guess I meant DI'ing it out to the FOH. 12 years ago the clubs in NYC did that... for our band at least (Knitting Factory, Lion's whatever, etc.)

The style of music will be anything from alterno-indie rock (ala sparklehorse) to slightly more experimental (ala Tortoise). It won't be hard, punk, or electro. I don't need a lot of volume. I'll endeavor to infect my bandmates with my abhorance of stage volume.

The SWR 1x15 combo (and then an extension if necessary) is an interesting idea. Looks to be a little cheaper than the GKs or Ashdown.

The SansAmp > Poweramp > speaker cab is another interesting idea (I don't think I could stomach purchasing a Peavey (no matter how illogical it might be)).

Thanks for the tips

[cwileyriser]

Other good thing about the SWR WM15 is that it's built like a tank. Except that is for the suck-ass single handle they put on top of it though. But the handle is my only beef with it. I bought some real handles to put on the sides, but haven't gotten around to putting them on yet.

[markpar]

SWR Super Redhead. 2x10 and it puts out a *lot* of bass. Really. Comes with casters, carpeted cover and a built-in (and good) DI. That's what I use pretty much every time I play out. I used to have an Ashdown 4x10 combo and it was really heavy. The Super Redhead is around 85 lbs, but it's balanced really well and the amp has spring-loaded handles on each side. It's a bit pricey, but worth it, I think.

-mark

[JES]

Forgot about the Sansamp-Poweramp rig. There's a guy on the bassist's list (www.magpie.com/tbl -- the Bottom Line -- the best internet resource for bassists, IMO, though there are more fusion players than rockers) who does the Sansamp-poweramp thing and loves it. If you want super light and are willing to pay for it, the Stewart 2.1 (NOT 1.2) works great. Get an Acme cab, and you're done!

Best,
--JES

[eeldip]

see if you can hear a polytone 1X15. they have a bunch of models that you can get used for $200-$300. they weigh like like 25 lbs.

they are a "jazz" combo. you might not like the tone. but i bet you would like the size and weight and cost.

[comfortstarr]

Forgot about the Sansamp-Poweramp rig. There's a guy on the bassist's list (www.magpie.com/tbl -- the Bottom Line -- the best internet resource for bassists, IMO, though there are more fusion players than rockers) who does the Sansamp-poweramp thing and loves it. If you want super light and are willing to pay for it, the Stewart 2.1 (NOT 1.2) works great. Get an Acme cab, and you're done!

Best,
--JES

What are some other poweramp options? That stewart thing is a little pricey.

[Matthew Dunne]

I also live in NYC. (Brooklyn actually.)

I have actually found that for most clubs that I play, you must or can use the house bass rig.

When I do need an amp, almost any wattage seems to be loud enough. (I usually use an acoustic image clarus head. About 100W into an 8ohm 15" cab.)

Good luck.

-Matthew

(I second the recommendation of the bottom line mailing list.)