Powered Monitors..... ????

general questions, comments and ideas about recording, audio, music, etc.
ceeelow
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Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by ceeelow » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:13 pm

Hi all, ok so I'm sure you all get this question often but I am already to start looking to buy; I just got paid. So, I need everyone's opionion on some honest, high quality, best kept secret, would kill the person who stole, near field, powered, monitors for my home studio for around 200-350 bucks. Mostly for rock music applications.....

Can anyone recommend anything?

thanks,

ceeelow

toddjal
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by toddjal » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:57 pm

what ever you do DO NOT BUY GENELEC's!!!!!

we have 1031's in two rooms at my work and those pieces of crap are so far from flat it makes me sick. they have this natural smiley face eq that makes everything sound bright and boomy even when it is far from it. they have high and low tilt designed to compensate for this but the natural bottom bump was appearing at around 500 and down and the bottom tilt starts way below that. thus if you do tilt you end up with this ugly bump at around 500 and the same situation with the top around 3K.

now before anyone goes blaming the rooms or anything, we tried this with two different matched pairs of 1031's in 3 different control rooms of our facility with a professional quality real time analyzer. maybe a freak insident but the chances seem unlikely.

vice versa, our 15" concentric tannoys through a crown amp are flatter than a board without any eq. even our NS-10's were closer to flat than our 1031's.

just my opinion but i will never buy a genelec product again with all of the hassle those things have been.

i'd check out the tannoy active reveal's. i've heard good things and the reps at AES NYC were very helpful and friendly. you could start with the 6" or 8" and then save up to get the active sub with built in cross-over. that'd be a great home setup.

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soundguy
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by soundguy » Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:30 pm

Ill second that opinion on genelecs. got rid of those as fast as I got 'em... Moved on to questeds which are insane, but just slightly out of the original posters budget (not that you could get genelecs for that money, even if thats about what they are worth IMO).

dave

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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by Professor » Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:43 pm

Can't be done.
I mean I don't want to rain on your parade here, but I don't think there is a powered speaker available in that price range that will really do justice to any kind of recording. Price wise you are down in the realm of nice computer speakers. Sure there are M-Audio, Samson, Edirol, and other barrel scrapers, but they are not worth blowing the hard earned money. But I don't think all hope is lost.
Beg, borrow or steal (preferably not the latter) an amplifier, old receiver or something to provide power to a pair of speakers, even if just for a few weeks/months from a friend. Then, buy some passive speakers from an actual speaker manufacturer, not from a company trying to fill out their line. Tannoy Reveal passives are a great choice that will land around $300 a pair. I personally always recommend B&W Loudspeakers from England, because their entry level model DM-303 comes in under $300 and their slightly improved DM-601 comes in around $450. But their top of the line Nautilus sells for $45,000 a pair, and you can be damn sure that the technology and know-how from that speaker trickles down to the entry point.
Eventually you'll have to return the amp, but by then you'll have saved up another $150-200 and you will be able to get at least something like an Alesis RA-150 and then you'll have a nice poewrful monitor system that can grow. A year later, when you are eventually ready to upgrade your speakers again, you can step up to the next set, move the old ones to the bedroom or den, and keep improving as you go.

-Jeremy

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Cellotron
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by Cellotron » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:19 pm

All the suggestions I have are over your budget range -
but if you want to be really happy for a long time I would suggest saving another $1000 and getting Mackie HR824's. You and your mixes won't regret it!

The Event 20/20bas and the recent variations (i.e. PS8, SP8, TR8) are pretty decent sounding to my ear also - the TR8 might do ya and is around $500 street price for the pair.

Tannoy Reveals are also pretty ok at around $700 for the active pair.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

toddjal
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by toddjal » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:30 pm

professor had a great point there. one of the advantages of passive is that you can spend the money in chunks. get a garage sale reciever and spend the money on better speakers. b & w's are an amazing line. then down the line it's not to hard to get a decent amp. i got an ART SLA-1 for dirt cheap. if you need more power later on you can you can buy a second and mono bridge them or build a DIY phase-linear crossover and put one on your woofers and one on your tweeters.

no matter what just don't cheap out on the monitors. even if it means waiting a bit longer. they're the one thing more than anything else that will save or ruin a studio.

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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by optionshift3 » Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:24 am

in defense of the Genelecs.....

You learn what to expect from any monitor. The Gennies are expensive, but there is a reason for that. They are well designed, espescially for extended listening periods. I can deal with them comfortably for 12 hours a day. But that may be because I have learned to.

The Mackie HR824 set don't suck at all. Espescially if you have a room that tends towards less low end. the imaging is on par or better than the Gennies, but they are a bit hyped. i only say this because i recently took them on tour, and had to adjust various listening situations to them in order to compsensate. Might be moot, as they really aren't in the price range.....

Just listen to what's available. For an extended amount of time, if at all possible. Some monitors sound incredible at first, but really start to wear on you after awhile.
if you are going to spend any real amount of money, whether it be Gennie-sized or m-audio sized, try it out first. I suppose that is just common sense, but whatever you get used to will be pretty important.


For what it's worth.....

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inverseroom
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by inverseroom » Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:47 am

As long as what you want is small monitors, I'd listen to the Professor. Get an old, cheap, good solid-state receiver or integrated amp, like a Yamaha or Kenwood, and then try out small speakers. I use Minimus 7's, which have almost no bass but only cost thirty bucks on eBay--they're great for nearfield highs and mids, and then I work on the bass on headphones. A stereo store dude and home recordist I know is trying to get my to buy Epos ELS-3's, which go for $260--they're supposed to have a very serviceable, punchy bass.

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pk
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by pk » Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:12 am

Alesis M1mk2 Actives.

$399/pair - incredible bang for the buck. I love mine, learned them and my mixes translate beautifully. Forget the M-Audio and Behringer which are in the same price range, in fact, just take a cd with you and go listen for yourself if you can. Don't like the Tannoys at all, but that's just me, monitors are a personal thing, what may sound like crap to me may sound great to you. Don't forget how important room acoustics are as well. Whatever you hear at Banjo Center will sound different at home, be prepared. Bottom line is, whatever speaker you end up with you will have to learn and know where to compensate.

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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by ctmsound » Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:54 am

For the price range you're looking for, I'd suggest www.ebay.com . Look for some KRK V6 or V8s and even the Tannoys go for pretty inexpensive there.

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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by smojo » Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:58 am

todd??? is that you???

It must be. is there another studio in the world with TWO ROOMS with genelec's as mains???

I think the ones in my room are 1032 A's....

I actually think I'm starting to like them. I'm having less trouble with the low end in that room then I do in A. I'll still be pissed if we put a tannoy system in B before carmel!!!

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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by mjau » Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:26 am

In defense of the Behringer powered monitors...it is probably the best product Behringer sells, and they do provide some decent options for tweaking them to your room. Of course, they are NOT going to sound like Genelecs, Adams, or Earthworks, but hell...they're $300 for a pair. If it's just a project studio that you have, take a look at them.

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pk
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by pk » Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:01 pm

As much as I hate Behringer, I would go the extra mile and perhaps defend their monitors, but I've read far too many posts indicating - right out of the box - blown out tweeter, screws loose inside the cabinet, speaker fails after a certain time, etc. Seems it's hit or miss with Behringer, and there probably some good pairs out there free of any defects, but these numerous reports don't instill much confidence in their products (I've had one of their mixers fail on me - so for me it's never again with big B).

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Slider
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by Slider » Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:38 pm

Speakers are subjective thing. What sounds great to one person sounds awful to another. I personally hate NS-10's i have to mix so this and bright for it to make sense anywhere else. But i know people who do great mixes on them. I would go listen to some Behringers, M-audio, Event, Alesis ect. and make sure you bring some cd's you really love. Whatever sounds good and somewhat normal to your ear will work fine.

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Reminor
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Re: Powered Monitors..... ????

Post by Reminor » Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:35 pm

I will second on Alesis M1 Active. I have the older version (not MKII) which I bought in 1999 for $600. That was my first set of "real" monitors, and though I auditioned several brands and models at that time, I was certainly not as experienced in sound as I am now.
Alesis are bright and detailed and they used to require a lot of effort to make things sound "right" for me. My friend's set of Event 20/20bas reproduced my mixes much nicer than I heard them on my monitors. Now I know it's all by the reason and Alesis are "right" monitors. I tend to think if it's easy to make a good mix there's a chance it won't translate well.

Though I was happy with Alesis I thought I am missing some other great monitors (esp. when so much popping up on the market). I thought I might be wasting my time tuning my ears and mixes to Alesis. I thought there might be a better monitor somewhere (which is always true). So I got some dough and recentrly started to look at some other monitor options.

I read a lot on the Web. I read a lot of good things about Mackie HR824 ($1200/pair) or Dynaudio BM6A ($1600) so I was about to get either.
Before spending that much I also took my chances and got myself a pair of highly praised Yorkville YSM1P ($400) and A/B them to Alesis in my studio. They are supposed to be in the same "weight category" as Alesis, but _that_ much praise made me think I was missing the point all of those years using Alesis.

To my surprise, (my gawd!), Yorkies sound absolutely awfull in comparison with Alesis. I tweaked Yorkies with those switches they have and made the sound as good as it gets. But close auditioning of many musical pieces revealed that they are not as detailed as Alesis. For instance Yorkies made rain drops in the beginning of Enigma's Mia Culpa sound more like hot oil cracks on a frying pan than rain. Alesis made a three voice choir sound natural and realistic, standing right in front of you. And the list goes on.

Yorkies are just so much hyped in the upper mids, and they make sound panorama kind of 2D, washed out. Alesis makes it all stand in good 3D sound world. I am impressed and I see my old choice still rocks. Alesis are winners hands down. Yorkies go back.

I am ready to make my HR824 purchase (30-day return policy in a local GC is a great thing!). There's a chance I won't find $1200 worth of difference with my Alesis, and they end up back in the Guitar Center. Then I'll maybe get BM6A (no chance to audition them beforehand, but heck!).

I listened to HR624, HR824 and KRK V8 there in GC. Those V8's seemed more like Yorkies - they are 2D (again I did not spend as much time there, so it's not as deep studio comparison as Yorkies<->Alesis). Both Mackies are incredibly detailed. I happened to like H824 a bit better than their smaller brothers. I prolly' should mention I am into jazzy-folk-acoustic mellow type of sound with not that much bass, though I use drums. So my criteria might not be for everyone.

Just my $.02
Last edited by Reminor on Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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