im sure this has been discussed before, but i couldnt find anything in a search. and i hope this is the right sub-forum, but anyways.
im 19. havent done any college yet cause i didnt wanna waste my time and money going to school for something im not sure i want as my career/scrambling to find something to make my career. right now i just work under the table doing contracting work and record music in my room and friends' houses. now im thinking "heres a crazy thought- what if i could make a living doing what i love most- recording music."
so far i just expected i'd get enough equipment to make respectable recordings and just kind of DIY it until I move and get an internship etc.
but now im looking at the Los Angeles Recording School...
is it worth it?
itll put me in debt $25k and then for all i know i could be stuck jobless with a useless "education" and a mountain of debt.
or is it better to be in a little less debt from decent equipment and just try to get my own experience?
to school or not to school?
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Gregg Juke
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Either way can work. Music/Audio is a crapshoot, especially nowadays, and it all depends on your definition of: "a decent living."
Ronan Chris Murphy has set-up a forum specifically for the whole "Audio School" thing. It's called Recording School Forum (www.recordingschoolforum.com). It's relatively new, so there may not be a lot of action, but you probably can get some ideas and maybe talk to others who have been there or are/were thinking of going.
GJ
Ronan Chris Murphy has set-up a forum specifically for the whole "Audio School" thing. It's called Recording School Forum (www.recordingschoolforum.com). It's relatively new, so there may not be a lot of action, but you probably can get some ideas and maybe talk to others who have been there or are/were thinking of going.
GJ
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ott0bot
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I'd say do it while you are still young. Life has a way of continually piling on responsibility and time becomes increasingly more difficult to come by these days. I went to school in my mid 20's and finished up just last year, mostly because I work full time, have a wife, and was playing in a band. So it was hard to take more that 2 classes at a time. Oh, how I wish I would have known what I wanted to do when i was 19, and started persuing it then.
If you feel a need for knowledge, then school can be benificial. You will learn things that you may not me interested in, but a very valuable. Something that learning on your own will rarely make happen, since you will most likely focus on the areas of your personal interest only.
Also, school is an amazing way to network. Many contacts from school are my go to session players or people I can count out to assist if needed. I just work out of my house on zero budget projects, and doing things when I have time after my full time job. So having people I can count on, that'll usually work for free is a huge plus.
Personally, I valued my time at school. Two of my instructors were really awesome, and I ended up intering for one of them in his studio. I got alot out of the classes, because I applied myself and went he extra mile on nearly every assignment. I went the cheap route and attended community college, and earned a CCL in Audio Production, and used loan overaged to help fund some gear purchases. That way I can actually do work at home and have equipment that can be resold if money is tight.
As far as $25k in debt for school...that's peanuts compared to bachelor degree these days. It's only around $160 a month, when consolidated, and no fee to pay off early if money does come in. Try to pay interest as you attend school to help keep your debt low. Also...you can probably apply for a pell grant, if you aren't really earning much money as of now.
That being said....there is nothing like true experience to learn recording. And no amount of school can teach you some of the best lessons, but it can give you a foundation to give you competance and confidence in most situations. that helps.
As far as being able to make a living....hard to say. Thats always a big maybe, no matter what degree. It's usually more how you apply yourself, who you know, and being in the right place at the right time. If you really want to make a living, audio recording isn't a great career. But if that is the only thing you want to do, then make it happen yourself.
If you feel a need for knowledge, then school can be benificial. You will learn things that you may not me interested in, but a very valuable. Something that learning on your own will rarely make happen, since you will most likely focus on the areas of your personal interest only.
Also, school is an amazing way to network. Many contacts from school are my go to session players or people I can count out to assist if needed. I just work out of my house on zero budget projects, and doing things when I have time after my full time job. So having people I can count on, that'll usually work for free is a huge plus.
Personally, I valued my time at school. Two of my instructors were really awesome, and I ended up intering for one of them in his studio. I got alot out of the classes, because I applied myself and went he extra mile on nearly every assignment. I went the cheap route and attended community college, and earned a CCL in Audio Production, and used loan overaged to help fund some gear purchases. That way I can actually do work at home and have equipment that can be resold if money is tight.
As far as $25k in debt for school...that's peanuts compared to bachelor degree these days. It's only around $160 a month, when consolidated, and no fee to pay off early if money does come in. Try to pay interest as you attend school to help keep your debt low. Also...you can probably apply for a pell grant, if you aren't really earning much money as of now.
That being said....there is nothing like true experience to learn recording. And no amount of school can teach you some of the best lessons, but it can give you a foundation to give you competance and confidence in most situations. that helps.
As far as being able to make a living....hard to say. Thats always a big maybe, no matter what degree. It's usually more how you apply yourself, who you know, and being in the right place at the right time. If you really want to make a living, audio recording isn't a great career. But if that is the only thing you want to do, then make it happen yourself.
wow i didnt expect such great replies. thanks i really appreciate it.
schooling is looking like the best option. itll just be so much easier knowing ill learn all the things i need to know without having to buy 2" machines and a big console and learn all the shit myself.
and as far as "a living" goes- i know its not a very wealthy career. as long as i can do what i love everyday, and live comfortably most of the time, thats all i really need.
schooling is looking like the best option. itll just be so much easier knowing ill learn all the things i need to know without having to buy 2" machines and a big console and learn all the shit myself.
and as far as "a living" goes- i know its not a very wealthy career. as long as i can do what i love everyday, and live comfortably most of the time, thats all i really need.
If you are going to spend 25k, get a degree worth something. You might want to look at management/entrepreneur degrees. It would leave you with enough electives to take some recording classes. Then in your business classes you would learn the invaluable tools of understanding business and how to apply them to your recording business. Maybe they have some business classes at Los Angeles Recording School? Another plus of having a management degree if in ten years you want to do something else you have more options.
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CurtZHP
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Unless there's absolutely no way to avoid it, I would recommend against going into debt to pay for school. (Insert gasps here.)
You'll finish school in debt. Sure the payment is only a hundred and change a month, but that's a hundred and change a month you'll have to come up with whether you're working for a living or not. Pile on top of that rent, groceries, and transportation, and it can become a burden.
If there's a way to work while going to school, by all means do it. It might take longer to get to the prize (degree, certificate, whatever...), but when you get there, #1 you'll be debt free, and #2 you'll have a longer resume than your classmates who opted to not work their way through. (Even if that resume includes jobs that have nothing to do with your education, it shows prospective employers that you can hold down a job.)
As far as courses of study, don't just limit yourself to recording. Like Lapsteel said, take some business classes as well. Or you could also look into studying electronics. It's one thing to know how to operate the console, another to be able to fix it too. It's another marketable skill that even translates outside of recording.
You'll finish school in debt. Sure the payment is only a hundred and change a month, but that's a hundred and change a month you'll have to come up with whether you're working for a living or not. Pile on top of that rent, groceries, and transportation, and it can become a burden.
If there's a way to work while going to school, by all means do it. It might take longer to get to the prize (degree, certificate, whatever...), but when you get there, #1 you'll be debt free, and #2 you'll have a longer resume than your classmates who opted to not work their way through. (Even if that resume includes jobs that have nothing to do with your education, it shows prospective employers that you can hold down a job.)
As far as courses of study, don't just limit yourself to recording. Like Lapsteel said, take some business classes as well. Or you could also look into studying electronics. It's one thing to know how to operate the console, another to be able to fix it too. It's another marketable skill that even translates outside of recording.
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Those are some great points. I wish I wouldn't have gone into debt going to college. At least worked during the school year, even if it was only one or two days a week. Also expanding your focus and looking at other things like electronics, etc. You might find something you never thought you would like.CurtZHP wrote:Unless there's absolutely no way to avoid it, I would recommend against going into debt to pay for school. (Insert gasps here.)
You'll finish school in debt. Sure the payment is only a hundred and change a month, but that's a hundred and change a month you'll have to come up with whether you're working for a living or not. Pile on top of that rent, groceries, and transportation, and it can become a burden.
If there's a way to work while going to school, by all means do it. It might take longer to get to the prize (degree, certificate, whatever...), but when you get there, #1 you'll be debt free, and #2 you'll have a longer resume than your classmates who opted to not work their way through. (Even if that resume includes jobs that have nothing to do with your education, it shows prospective employers that you can hold down a job.)
As far as courses of study, don't just limit yourself to recording. Like Lapsteel said, take some business classes as well. Or you could also look into studying electronics. It's one thing to know how to operate the console, another to be able to fix it too. It's another marketable skill that even translates outside of recording.
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ott0bot
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Good points guys!
Like CurtZHP mentioned, learning electrical and gear repair skills are really valuable to most studios. It"s a good way to actually make money in the industry. You can profit off the studio guys that are barely scraping by. kidding....
I had to take 3 music business classes in school, so I assumed you may have to do so as well. But maybe not....so that is definately an area of study that I'd recomend as well. Becoming a well rounded and educated person makes you a better engineer and human being from my experience.
Like CurtZHP mentioned, learning electrical and gear repair skills are really valuable to most studios. It"s a good way to actually make money in the industry. You can profit off the studio guys that are barely scraping by. kidding....
I had to take 3 music business classes in school, so I assumed you may have to do so as well. But maybe not....so that is definately an area of study that I'd recomend as well. Becoming a well rounded and educated person makes you a better engineer and human being from my experience.
ive thought about just going to city college for business, but i just cant bring myself to do all the general ed bullshit i had to do in highschool. and if i really wanted a degree, after LA recording school i could go to full sail and get my bachelor's in recording engineering. but i just dont think ill need it in this industry. i think itll be worth it to get to know people and network at LA recording school and start from there.
Another thing you might want to think about is the contacts you will make. It is one thing to have a lot of contacts in recording, but it is pretty amazing what contacts outside of recording can bring you. You will meet this person that has a friend in a band that needs something recorded, etc. Or another person needs to transfer some tapes or something. It gets kind of muddled in recording circles since the ones that have bands will do the work themselves. That's not to say that you can't get excellent leads from people withing recording.
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Tragabigzanda
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I say go to school, but not for engineering. Pay for an education in electrical engineering, music theory, music business, or anything else that will definitely help you later on down the road. If you get your college degree, you're gonna wind up with a studio internship...which is exactly where you'd be if you didn't get the degree. The big studios are losing clients, the small studios have just enough work coming in to support their staff on hand, and you're just one of many who wants to get in the game. The people who I've seen have a really long, healthy career know how to wire their own studio, and/or how to collect residuals from records they've produced. In my opinion, there's nothing that a recording engineering program is going to teach you that you couldn't learn on your own time.
Alex C. McKenzie
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A.David.MacKinnon
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Spending 25k on what is basically a career college for a career where there are no jobs is FUCKING INSANE and one of the biggest scams being pulled on today's youth. Would you spend 25k to learn how to be in a band? Would one of the classes be how to live for 4 months on rice and mustard? Your prospects for making a living as an producer/engineer are only slightly better than your prospects of making a living as a musician.
Instead of spending 25k on school why not spend 8-10K on a bare bones but decent recording set-up. Devote the years you would have spent at school making free records for friends and anyone else who will let you learn while recording them. While you're doing that you should also be reading everything you can find on the subject of recording, making friends with older pros who will let you look over their shoulder while they work, make friends with other budding producer/engineers (don't think of them as competition, think of them as a resource), playing in bands and being part of your local music scene, learning to fix broken stuff and taking classes in business and finance.
This is a job that you learn by doing. In the old days that meant you started out sweeping and getting coffee and worked your way up to running the tape machine before anyone let you touch a fader or talk about production. These days it means you make cheap, crappy records while learning how to make cheap, great records.
Three or four years onto the process you might not have as much textbook knowledge as a recent recording school grad but you'll know how to run a session, and how to get great results with no time or budget, and you'll have the beginnings of a client base which is the most important thing because school or not, you'll most likely be a freelancer or owner operator.
More times than not this is a seat of the pants, necessity is the mother of invention kind of business. You can't learn that shit in school.
Instead of spending 25k on school why not spend 8-10K on a bare bones but decent recording set-up. Devote the years you would have spent at school making free records for friends and anyone else who will let you learn while recording them. While you're doing that you should also be reading everything you can find on the subject of recording, making friends with older pros who will let you look over their shoulder while they work, make friends with other budding producer/engineers (don't think of them as competition, think of them as a resource), playing in bands and being part of your local music scene, learning to fix broken stuff and taking classes in business and finance.
This is a job that you learn by doing. In the old days that meant you started out sweeping and getting coffee and worked your way up to running the tape machine before anyone let you touch a fader or talk about production. These days it means you make cheap, crappy records while learning how to make cheap, great records.
Three or four years onto the process you might not have as much textbook knowledge as a recent recording school grad but you'll know how to run a session, and how to get great results with no time or budget, and you'll have the beginnings of a client base which is the most important thing because school or not, you'll most likely be a freelancer or owner operator.
More times than not this is a seat of the pants, necessity is the mother of invention kind of business. You can't learn that shit in school.
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A.David.MacKinnon
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no...you made a loooott of good points. it does sound too good to be true.A.David.MacKinnon wrote:P.S. Sorry for the old guy rant.
I know that recording school wont promise me a job or maybe even get me further than if I just did it DIY. Hell- i was already practically offered an internship type thing at New Improved Recording (issue #75). But it will give me 900 hours of experience I wouldn't get at home. experience with a 2" machine, a real console, and just time in a real studio. And then of course- ill be on my feet in LA...where some of the most magical magic happens.
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A.David.MacKinnon
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