I'm looking for some recommendations for good (and relatively quick) online mastering places. I have a project that needs to go into production very soon, and not meaning to sound harsh but the original mastering engineer doesn't seem up to the job.
The test pressings have sounded mushy and noisy. The CD sounds fine, but it's a different master for vinyl because the ME says the format can't handle the cymbals and high frequencies on the record. I'm not convinced he's right, or has approached that problem correctly, so we might need to look at other options.
I'd prefer places in the UK but I'd be interested in anywhere else anyone could suggest. The original unmastered versions are in 96k/24bit .wav files.
Good online vinyl mastering needed...
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iamthecosmos
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suppositron
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JohnDavisNYC
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www.saltmastering.com
paul gold is awesome. i just got a copy of the new werewolves lp that i mixed, and it is one of the best cuts and pressings i have heard in a long time. i have to find out from the label who plated and pressed it, but paul certainly did an amazing job.
john
paul gold is awesome. i just got a copy of the new werewolves lp that i mixed, and it is one of the best cuts and pressings i have heard in a long time. i have to find out from the label who plated and pressed it, but paul certainly did an amazing job.
john
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iamthecosmos
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I had a look at that and it seems he makes the physical masters. I just need someone to master the digital files then send them back so they can be cut at the pressing plant. I may have misunderstood however!toaster3000 wrote:www.saltmastering.com
paul gold is awesome. i just got a copy of the new werewolves lp that i mixed, and it is one of the best cuts and pressings i have heard in a long time. i have to find out from the label who plated and pressed it, but paul certainly did an amazing job.
john
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JohnDavisNYC
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you need both... the cutting guys at pressing plants are usually fucking donkeys who don't give a shit about the sound of the record... a good mastering engineer like paul will master it AND cut a sick lacquer.
I learned this lesson the hard way by sending a 'mastered' record out to get cut by the pressing plant and got back one of the shittiest, most distorted and crackly sounding test presses I've ever heard... they refused to cut it again, saying the same bullshit that they told you.
I paid double to have it cut somewhere else and then the lacquers sent to the pressing plant, and then, magically, i got a great sounding record!
john
I learned this lesson the hard way by sending a 'mastered' record out to get cut by the pressing plant and got back one of the shittiest, most distorted and crackly sounding test presses I've ever heard... they refused to cut it again, saying the same bullshit that they told you.
I paid double to have it cut somewhere else and then the lacquers sent to the pressing plant, and then, magically, i got a great sounding record!
john
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jnTracks
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Have you ever mastered anything for vinyl? Any vinyl-specific credits?jntracks wrote:affordable mastering here
www.jntracks.com
i'd be happy to send you some before/after files.
Please pardon my skepticism, but when the first thing that pops up on your page is a picture of a cluttered workspace, with tiny speakers, one of which is actually BEHIND a rack, and a couple of pieces of auralex on the wall, it doesn't exactly foster confidence. Another thing that raises a red flag is when a studio posts a gear list that indicates that very little investment has been made in the important areas (monitors, converters, outboard, you know, real gear), while they've somehow managed to accumulate $10,000 worth of software stuff and plugins. It makes me think that you've either got your priorities wrong, or worse, that you may be using pirated software in a commercial environment.
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JohnDavisNYC
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*raises glass*
Yeah. Didn't want to be the one to say it, jntracks, but you also seem to only pop up in threads where people need something you clearly can't offer.
If you want to be taken seriously on this forum, it would probably help out your cause to participate in discussions, rather than raise your hand and shout 'me, me, me!!!' from the back of the classroom everytime someone needs PROFESSIONAL work done.
John
Yeah. Didn't want to be the one to say it, jntracks, but you also seem to only pop up in threads where people need something you clearly can't offer.
If you want to be taken seriously on this forum, it would probably help out your cause to participate in discussions, rather than raise your hand and shout 'me, me, me!!!' from the back of the classroom everytime someone needs PROFESSIONAL work done.
John
+1 for paul, he recently did a great sounding cut for me too.
but i will say in your original MEs possible defense - there is some truth to there being a relationship between high end/level/distortion/radius on the cut. there will be more distortion on cymbals as you get closer to the center of the disc - if you're pushing a hot level, or longer side - it would be more noticeable. the reason you want a good ME is you're getting someone who understands the interplay of side length, frequency spectrum and level and will strike a favorable balance.
also it sucks if you're at the test pressing stage and are looking to recut laquers, and now you need new plating too. if you do this again, get a reference acetate (dub plate). paul will do this - because at this point you're not sure that it's
a) a shitty laquer cut
b) a shitty plating job
c) a shitty test pressing
c) seems to also be somewhat common in that the plants sometimes won't let the press fully warm up since they're just doing a few copies, and the same metal parts would make a better sounding 'real product' when the press is fully going.
b) is usually avoided by using mastercraft for this stage
also, i could imagine it sounding noisy if you have a long length for the format, which would force a lower level cut. say we're talking 7" 33rpm with long sides - in many ways you've tied the laquer cutters hands.
totally not saying original dude didn't fuck up yr stuff - just saying there are a bunch of variables going on...
i'm also a little skeptical of the need to do a separate master for the laquer ME. what is this intermediary 'pre-mastering' guy doing to make it different from your cd version? unless he's changing sequence to better suit side lengths, i don't really see the advantage. your laquer cutting guy should be able to work with the cd master as his sonic starting point.
but i will say in your original MEs possible defense - there is some truth to there being a relationship between high end/level/distortion/radius on the cut. there will be more distortion on cymbals as you get closer to the center of the disc - if you're pushing a hot level, or longer side - it would be more noticeable. the reason you want a good ME is you're getting someone who understands the interplay of side length, frequency spectrum and level and will strike a favorable balance.
also it sucks if you're at the test pressing stage and are looking to recut laquers, and now you need new plating too. if you do this again, get a reference acetate (dub plate). paul will do this - because at this point you're not sure that it's
a) a shitty laquer cut
b) a shitty plating job
c) a shitty test pressing
c) seems to also be somewhat common in that the plants sometimes won't let the press fully warm up since they're just doing a few copies, and the same metal parts would make a better sounding 'real product' when the press is fully going.
b) is usually avoided by using mastercraft for this stage
also, i could imagine it sounding noisy if you have a long length for the format, which would force a lower level cut. say we're talking 7" 33rpm with long sides - in many ways you've tied the laquer cutters hands.
totally not saying original dude didn't fuck up yr stuff - just saying there are a bunch of variables going on...
i'm also a little skeptical of the need to do a separate master for the laquer ME. what is this intermediary 'pre-mastering' guy doing to make it different from your cd version? unless he's changing sequence to better suit side lengths, i don't really see the advantage. your laquer cutting guy should be able to work with the cd master as his sonic starting point.
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hank alrich
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Hello? Mastering for vinyl is making the physical masters, cut on the lathe into an acetate disc. It's not about doing something to a digital file and then ouputting another digital file.iamthecosmos wrote:I had a look at that and it seems he makes the physical masters. I just need someone to master the digital files then send them back so they can be cut at the pressing plant. I may have misunderstood however!toaster3000 wrote:www.saltmastering.com
paul gold is awesome. i just got a copy of the new werewolves lp that i mixed, and it is one of the best cuts and pressings i have heard in a long time. i have to find out from the label who plated and pressed it, but paul certainly did an amazing job.
john
Is this your first project that is going to vinyl? If so, please put some time into studying the process. You will appreciate what knowing something about what you're doing does for the final vinyl result.
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jnTracks
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ok pardon me, but this is a forum for TapeOP, a DIY-aimed recording magazine. shouldn't we be trading advice and -in this forum, specifically- hooking up those who need work with those who do the work?
rather than sarcastically calling each other incompetent and ignorant?
so, i don't cut acetate. the initial post sounded like he wanted somebody to master stereo mixes taking special care to the high/low ends and dynamics the one should do for pressing to vinyl, and send the masters to be pressed (or back to him so he can, whatever) i'm all in the box DAW and the mixes are in 24/96 files so that's all good. they'd come in 24/96, get processed for dynamics and level balancing, and since it was for analog format, they're go out 24/96.
i don't have any credits mastering for vinyl but i know what should be done differently than a CD master and i've sat in on some sessions when i was still interning in boston. (everybody has to do a first if they're going to do any) i'm not the most experienced person you can find to do your mastering and my gear isn't the most expensive but in this context the work would never leave the DAW so... as you mentioned, i care a great deal and put a lot into outfiting my DAW with great plugins which, in my case, are "real" gear since they're doing all the work in mixing and mastering sessions.
my rates are significantly less than a big commercial studio and are really pretty good for the quality i produce. i take pride in my work and it shouldn't be an insult to you that i wanted you to consider me. i won't be insulted when you turn me down for someone else.
allow me to defend myself a bit about my studio and the page. my DAW is set up in the basement of my house. i have a small room and my monitors are sized accordingly. (there's a sub back there too by the way) they sit on monitor stands behind my desk at the proper distance from the mix position. so ya, they're behind the rack.... and the screen and everything else on the table. the rack doesn't obstruct them as you seem to be suggesting. as for my cluttered workspace, sorry, i have a small desk for all my gear and i leave pens and pads of paper there too.
again, my setup is in the basement of my house and it's not rich. i worked hard to make my control room sound as good as it can with my resources and i'm pretty proud of it. so i've put more into my ITB plugins for mixing than than $3k mic pres and converters. i don't really have expensive enough microphones to justify that expense and i don't really have a nice enough recording room to justify the expensive mics. the total isn't really close to $10k since i get my ilok licenses on ebay for much less than new. it's all the same in software. i spend the money in the places that i think i get the best bang for my buck in my particular situation. still, in the case of mastering, the plugins would be the only thing touching your mixes so...
isn't this TapeOP? shouldn't i be welcomed here like everybody else, from commercial to home hobbyist?
john, i think your comments are completely unfair. this will be my 53rd post on the board since the end of may when i joined. five or six of those have been in the hookups forum so, maybe we just haven't been talking on the same threads? it's a big place. i've been steeped in music, sound and recording since i was a teenager and since i finished audio school in 2003 i've been doing it for money. bands have paid me for their projects. some of them have gone out to record labels distro. it's not a super long list but they're all very happy and almost all of them have come back for more projects. at what point do i get to be "professional"?
did you guys listen to the tracks on my page? did they sound poorly balanced? the streaming format is pretty shitty so let me offer links to the before/after sample i made of a master for cd. i think it's a good master and the band was happy. the difference for vinyl; i'd take the extra step to roll off super highs and lows, eliminate out of phase lows and back off the loudness a bit since vinyl breathes a little more than cd. (and of course skip the dithering)
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1522338/befo ... sample.wav
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1522338/afte ... sample.wav
again, i'm not going to be insulted if you want someone who's a bigger deal to do it. there's lots of folks who are better than me. but everybody in the world has somebody who's still better than them and i think i have a good ear and i'm confident i could do a great job of it also.
if you were looking for someone to cut the acetate in house than i'm sorry i misunderstood.
at any rate, i'll take this criticism as productively as i can and think about changing the site to avoid the impression of untrustworthy-ness that you got.
and sorry for hijacking your thread a little bit here. this just bothered me.
rather than sarcastically calling each other incompetent and ignorant?
so, i don't cut acetate. the initial post sounded like he wanted somebody to master stereo mixes taking special care to the high/low ends and dynamics the one should do for pressing to vinyl, and send the masters to be pressed (or back to him so he can, whatever) i'm all in the box DAW and the mixes are in 24/96 files so that's all good. they'd come in 24/96, get processed for dynamics and level balancing, and since it was for analog format, they're go out 24/96.
i don't have any credits mastering for vinyl but i know what should be done differently than a CD master and i've sat in on some sessions when i was still interning in boston. (everybody has to do a first if they're going to do any) i'm not the most experienced person you can find to do your mastering and my gear isn't the most expensive but in this context the work would never leave the DAW so... as you mentioned, i care a great deal and put a lot into outfiting my DAW with great plugins which, in my case, are "real" gear since they're doing all the work in mixing and mastering sessions.
my rates are significantly less than a big commercial studio and are really pretty good for the quality i produce. i take pride in my work and it shouldn't be an insult to you that i wanted you to consider me. i won't be insulted when you turn me down for someone else.
allow me to defend myself a bit about my studio and the page. my DAW is set up in the basement of my house. i have a small room and my monitors are sized accordingly. (there's a sub back there too by the way) they sit on monitor stands behind my desk at the proper distance from the mix position. so ya, they're behind the rack.... and the screen and everything else on the table. the rack doesn't obstruct them as you seem to be suggesting. as for my cluttered workspace, sorry, i have a small desk for all my gear and i leave pens and pads of paper there too.
again, my setup is in the basement of my house and it's not rich. i worked hard to make my control room sound as good as it can with my resources and i'm pretty proud of it. so i've put more into my ITB plugins for mixing than than $3k mic pres and converters. i don't really have expensive enough microphones to justify that expense and i don't really have a nice enough recording room to justify the expensive mics. the total isn't really close to $10k since i get my ilok licenses on ebay for much less than new. it's all the same in software. i spend the money in the places that i think i get the best bang for my buck in my particular situation. still, in the case of mastering, the plugins would be the only thing touching your mixes so...
isn't this TapeOP? shouldn't i be welcomed here like everybody else, from commercial to home hobbyist?
john, i think your comments are completely unfair. this will be my 53rd post on the board since the end of may when i joined. five or six of those have been in the hookups forum so, maybe we just haven't been talking on the same threads? it's a big place. i've been steeped in music, sound and recording since i was a teenager and since i finished audio school in 2003 i've been doing it for money. bands have paid me for their projects. some of them have gone out to record labels distro. it's not a super long list but they're all very happy and almost all of them have come back for more projects. at what point do i get to be "professional"?
did you guys listen to the tracks on my page? did they sound poorly balanced? the streaming format is pretty shitty so let me offer links to the before/after sample i made of a master for cd. i think it's a good master and the band was happy. the difference for vinyl; i'd take the extra step to roll off super highs and lows, eliminate out of phase lows and back off the loudness a bit since vinyl breathes a little more than cd. (and of course skip the dithering)
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1522338/befo ... sample.wav
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1522338/afte ... sample.wav
again, i'm not going to be insulted if you want someone who's a bigger deal to do it. there's lots of folks who are better than me. but everybody in the world has somebody who's still better than them and i think i have a good ear and i'm confident i could do a great job of it also.
if you were looking for someone to cut the acetate in house than i'm sorry i misunderstood.
at any rate, i'll take this criticism as productively as i can and think about changing the site to avoid the impression of untrustworthy-ness that you got.
and sorry for hijacking your thread a little bit here. this just bothered me.
-Justin Newton
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MoreSpaceEcho
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iamthecosmos
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I'm fully aware of my lack of knowledge of the intricacies of the process, which is why I leave it to the professionals. I was hoping for an ME that could provide digital files to work with that have had the problems inherent to vinyl bore in mind before starting, because the record clearly needs another master for vinyl to address problems that wouldn't be a big deal for CD. If that's not possible then I'll be going for the cutting & all.hank alrich wrote:Hello? Mastering for vinyl is making the physical masters, cut on the lathe into an acetate disc. It's not about doing something to a digital file and then ouputting another digital file.iamthecosmos wrote:I had a look at that and it seems he makes the physical masters. I just need someone to master the digital files then send them back so they can be cut at the pressing plant. I may have misunderstood however!toaster3000 wrote:www.saltmastering.com
paul gold is awesome. i just got a copy of the new werewolves lp that i mixed, and it is one of the best cuts and pressings i have heard in a long time. i have to find out from the label who plated and pressed it, but paul certainly did an amazing job.
john
Is this your first project that is going to vinyl? If so, please put some time into studying the process. You will appreciate what knowing something about what you're doing does for the final vinyl result.
If I've misunderstood some things, then sorry if it caused offence. It's not the first record I've had mastered (the last one was done at Sterling, with obviously no problems), but it's the first one where I've had to supervise each step in the manufacturing a lot more.
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jnTracks
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this is what i thought you meant at first and i can do that (if you don't mind the stigma that my mix room is in a basement). i'm cheaper than bigger mastering studios but it will still sound great. i thought since this is an unexpected step you might not want to spend a lot on it. see my samples in the post above. i'll make sure your test's come back sounding the way you want before i consider the project done.iamthecosmos wrote:
I'm fully aware of my lack of knowledge of the intricacies of the process, which is why I leave it to the professionals. I was hoping for an ME that could provide digital files to work with that have had the problems inherent to vinyl bore in mind before starting, because the record clearly needs another master for vinyl to address problems that wouldn't be a big deal for CD. If that's not possible then I'll be going for the cutting & all.
these other referrals can provide the cutting too so by all means take that option if you prefer.
and don't apologize to these guys for not knowing something. i think the internet ego's are swelling a little bit and they're forgetting this is TOMB and not the Grammy winning sound engineer's club. nobody has any business insulting anybody else about what they don't know.
-Justin Newton
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