LA studio scene?

ENOCHKANE · Post by **ENOCHKANE** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:24 am

Hello to all!

I'm considering moving to Los Angeles in the coming months and am not sure what the studio scene is like out there. I currently am a staff engineer at a two room studio in NYC and my experience is with live tracking, overdubs, and mixing (using both tape and DAW). Wondering how hard it is to get into the scene there. It looks like a lot of studios do almost exclusively film (ADR and all that) work. That's not really my thing but if that's the majority of work out there I could get into it.

I did a lot of Google searching and found some really interesting places in the LA area, namely Sonora Recorders ( http://www.sonorarecorders.com/ ), Bright Street ( http://brightstreetrecorders.com/home_frameset.html ), Sound City ( http://www.soundcitystudios.com/sta_indx.html ), not to mention the obvious name studios (village, record plant, etc).

Any LA area engineers out there with advice? Just not sure if studios have staff engineers (some of the sites list them) or if they mainly operate for freelancers with maybe one may house engineer. Also, just today I was this about the LA studio scene in the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-s ... 6140.story

Am i crazy to move out there and away from my very secure studio post here? Any studio veterans out there who have some advice for a young-ish engineer? Just kinda thinking out loud here...

Thanks for reading!

-P

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:52 am

Well, you'd probably be giving up a staff engineer position for a world of freelance. I wouldn't go out there unless you had some concrete leads. There is work, but remember there are a million people doing the same thing, so be prepared to hustle and STILL not find work. unless you want to second for a few years ... : )

The mid level studio has been pretty gobbled up by home studios for sure.

That being said, I miss LA and there is TONS of talent there...

Anthony Caruso · Post by **Anthony Caruso** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:04 pm

This is a long answer, sorry, but it's a chimera question...

I've been working in LA for 5 years now, and my experience is that at bigger places (I came up at Record Plant first as runner then as staff for and have worked freelance at places like The Village) you need to go through the runner stuff first. At RP there were a couple of instances where they hired an experienced assistant straight to assisting when they were short and none of the runners were quite there yet, but for the most part they want you to run first, and they like to promote their own runners if possible. Every single time these assistants who didn't have to run came on a personal recommendation, they weren't hired after cold calling the studio. Management needed someone and solicited them from people they knew, either current assistants or other contacts in the scene.

I'm not saying you couldn't find a staff gig, just keep in mind that stuff is slow out here, especially for the big places, and they are mostly on skeleton crew as it is.

And a staff gig at a bigger place usually means "assistant", and getting thrown engineering gigs when a client without their own engineer books in. The trade off is you may only get 3 or 4 actual engineering gigs a month, but they pay stupid major label money.

On the other hand, there are a ton of places like Bright Street (medium sized studios, I guess) around. I've never tried to find a job at one of them, but I'd imagine it's possible. Again, my bet is that they look to people they know and trust to recommend someone. That's how I've got all my freelance work since I left RP. (Incidentally, I have a week booked at Bright Street in November and I'm pretty psyched to work there, cool place and Pierre is very nice).

It's tough because generally for LA you have to be here to be looking for work, I think partially because there ARE so many good people here already. Sending a resume cross-country usually doesn't land you a gig, though it may get you a "Call me when you get here" response. And these damn recording schools in Hollywood churn out hundreds of kids every few months who couldn't troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag BUT are willing to work for free. Maybe with your experience, that would be a good thing. When people find someone who knows their shit and is easy to get along with, they usually stick close by.

Yes, there are a lot of film/TV etc "post" type studios, but they are a different world. You could show up with a resume sporting 100 Grammys and still they'd stick you in the dup room for 6 months.

Oh yeah, you like live tracking and tape? Be careful what studios you check out. Hip hop, R&B, pop, etc rule the world in most of the big places out here. A few places try to avoid these types of session, but sometimes you gotta book a room, you know? Other places like RP thrive on pop/rap/etc almost exclusively. I saw tape come out once during my stint there, for the Herbie Hancock/Christina Aguilera duet. Ha, so even the one tape session was pop! (This excludes mixing, plenty of mixers go down to 1" or 1/2").

There are a lot of studios out here owned/leased/whatever by producers, film composers, music library companies, etc. That is another option, but maybe better if you'd eventually like to land more in a composing/production role. Again, these places tend to be on the smaller side, or even private. They are more often looking for someone who can track/edit in the DAW as well as many other les "engineer-y" tasks, it usually isn't straight up engineering, more like production assistant.

So to sum it up:

1) It really, REALLY helps to know someone working here in a studio already, or find a NY person who has an LA connection. The "foot in the door" really helps.

2) If you want to do music, look into those studios. If you want to do post, look there.

3) You like tracking musicians/rock/tape/etc, look at Sunset Sound or The Boat or The Village or Ocean Way or Capitol or Westlake.

4) Staff at a "medium" studio I don't really know about, but there are a lot out there. My issue would be if I'm gonna be on call 24/7 as staff for a studio, I better be learning a lot from the very experienced owner/head engineer/whoever, not some clown with a Guit Center credit line.

5) Freelance generally comes after working somewhere as staff for a while, I would be surprised if you came out here and hooked up with freelance gigs right away that weren't pro bono "portfolio builders" on Craigslist.

6) Don't be afraid, there is plenty of work if you know what you're doing and make genuine connections with people you work for when you start out. But you DO have to meet these people one way or another!

7) There is no winter in LA. It is awesome. Don't let people convince you, "Oh, but there's no SEASONS...", I grew up in NH so I know what I am talking about. Fall, winter, and the first 1/2 of spring are highly overrated.

I could probably write a lot more. I am going to stop now and check back later if you have any other questions!

PS- I didn't mention that I really like it out here and have had an extremely educational and fun time so far!!!

Ronan Chris Murphy · Post by **Ronan Chris Murphy** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:29 pm

I moved to LA after a decade as a first engineer in a few other cities (and countries), so I never did the assistant thing here, but I can tell you that the competition for assistant positions here is pretty fierce and its worth noting that most guys/gals that have steady second engineer gigs in LA would be the best first engineers in most second tier markets around the world.

ENOCHKANE · Post by **ENOCHKANE** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:18 pm

Sorry it's taken a little bit to respond...no internet at home.

Wow! Thanks so much for this very helpful info. Anthony, you went above and beyond the call of duty!

I do have some contacts out there, mainly a friend of a friend that works (worked?) at the Record Plant. Not sure his name but maybe you would know him. Also, I have a couple musician friends that are in studios a lot and friends with the owners. I can probably get some recommendations/introductions from them. I'm still checking with all my contacts here in NYC (and people I know in Memphis) to see if anyone has any leads.

I realize that I'm not going to just fall into another staff position. It took a year of being a runner at the studio I currently work at before even getting to fill in for an engineer. The situation was a bit different though as the studio is owned by two guys that I ended up becoming friends with and band mates with, so they ended up looking out for me. But I did do the whole interning at a few studios to get my foot in the door and made some great friends that way.

I have a whole list of studios that I plan to contact before I get out there and visit when I'm there. Definitely would like to stay with the tracking/mixing studios. I have nothing against R&B or Hip hop at all and have worked on a fair amount of it here but I do much prefer the kind of hip hop that involves more than just "spitting" over a MP3 the guy downloaded for free from the internet. I'm more into sampling a real drummer and making loops from avant-garde classical LPs. But tracking and mixing is what i'm into so I will tackle those possibilities first.

As for the general life style and weather, etc., i'm very excited. I grew up on a barrier island in Florida, so fun in the sun and warm weather is good for me. I'm a really hard worker and am not ashamed to pay some (more) dues to get in a good place and work with people I like.

Would love to hear anymore ideas if anyone has them.

And once again, thanks to you all and Tape Op for an amazing community.

-Patrick

Bobby Empire · Post by **Bobby Empire** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:15 am

Ronan Chris Murphy wrote:I moved to LA after a decade as a first engineer in a few other cities (and countries), so I never did the assistant thing here, but I can tell you that the competition for assistant positions here is pretty fierce and its worth noting that most guys/gals that have steady second engineer gigs in LA would be the best first engineers in most second tier markets around the world.

Hi Ronan, how's it going?

I agree with Ronan. It's like a bunch of wild dogs fighting over a scrap of meat.
It's very, very tough all over the world due to the amazing advances in the digital realm. Yes, a lot of work out here is post related. But even they are downsizing for said reason. Too much to say and I'm too lazy to input. Would be happy to talk via phone.

Good luck!

ENOCHKANE · Post by **ENOCHKANE** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:15 am

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm sure that I will have my work cutout for me and that there will likely be a significant wait time before i'm working steadily again (hello dish washing jobs!). I plan on also checking out the live/FOH/monitor mix scene. I do live sound a lot here in NYC to make extra cash and over the years have worked in a lot of the big venues, even working on a few install gigs. So maybe that will help get into the scene; I know that in NYC it has helped me meet a few bands that I ended up working with in the studio.

And thanks for the offer to speak on the phone. I would really like that. Also, I checked out your website and the at-101 looks like a very nice piece of gear. Too bad I was working during AES as it would've been nice to see in person.

Best,

Patrick

Bobby Empire · Post by **Bobby Empire** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:15 pm

ENOCHKANE wrote:Hi Robert,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm sure that I will have my work cutout for me and that there will likely be a significant wait time before i'm working steadily again (hello dish washing jobs!). I plan on also checking out the live/FOH/monitor mix scene. I do live sound a lot here in NYC to make extra cash and over the years have worked in a lot of the big venues, even working on a few install gigs. So maybe that will help get into the scene; I know that in NYC it has helped me meet a few bands that I ended up working with in the studio.

And thanks for the offer to speak on the phone. I would really like that. Also, I checked out your website and the at-101 looks like a very nice piece of gear. Too bad I was working during AES as it would've been nice to see in person.

Best,

Patrick

Regarding other gigs until you land the right one: That's great thinking. You don't have to wash dishes though bro! LOL! Find something that's related to your ultimate goal. For example, right now, my day gig is working at Mac Enthusiasts and I freelance whenever I can. I meet a lot of great people that way.

ENOCHKANE · Post by **ENOCHKANE** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:02 pm

Yeah, I was just joking about that dish washing gig. I have to do enough dishes at home! I did grow up in the restaurant industry so it's always something I can do. That being said, I haven't had to go that route in about 7 years.

Speaking of Mac help, I miss the early 00's here in NYC when you could get work teaching stores and wealthy types how to use their new iPods. Those days are over. Or are they?...

DrummerMan · Post by **DrummerMan** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:29 pm

I moved out here a little over 2 years ago. I wasn't looking for the same work you are, more trying to delve deeper into the score composing scene, but I will say this: Every single bit of work I've gotten (and it's really started to pick up) has come as a result of meeting out here with a friend (who was a director) of a friend of a friend of mine from New York. I started doing some music for free for silly little internet videos that never went anywhere, then those same guys got hired for a job that paid a little and they liked working with me so they got me on the job too. Since then, they've tried to get me (mostly succesfully) on every job they get. Now, somebody else who was the producer on one of those jobs recommended me for a gig doing a full movie score, which I got. Other connections like that have sprouted out from the original stuff as well.

Also, when I first moved out here, I was scouring the internet for "composer needed" jobs and trying to cold call and email every place I could think of. Not a single of those turned into anything.

I guess my point is that, as cliche as it sounds for LA, it seems like it really is who you know. That's the case anywhere to some degree, I suppose, but my current working theory is that there's a geographical reality when it comes to the difference between New York and LA. In New York, there are so many people condensed into such a small place that you can hardly go through your day without knowing more people, therefor greatly increasing the chance that one of those people might be a possible career connection. It was a task avoiding conversations about music with people I'd meet at a bar, or coffee shop or at a gig. Here, I've found that people keep to themselves a bit more, and there's a lot more space to do so. That's one of things that I really like about LA, having the physical and therefor mental space to think my ideas and thoughts through to some sort of fruition before getting caught up in the stream of whatever crazy amazing other thing is happen around me, 'cause in NYC, there was ALWAYS something crazy and amazing happening. I was doing cool stuff all the time, but never getting the time to get around to the stuff I really wanted to do.

I know that was as much about where I was at at the time I moved, but I'd spent my entire life up til that point in NYC, and the day I moved here I totally felt like I was home.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Bobby Empire · Post by **Bobby Empire** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:26 pm

DrummerMan wrote:I moved out here a little over 2 years ago. I wasn't looking for the same work you are, more trying to delve deeper into the score composing scene, but I will say this: Every single bit of work I've gotten (and it's really started to pick up) has come as a result of meeting out here with a friend (who was a director) of a friend of a friend of mine from New York. I started doing some music for free for silly little internet videos that never went anywhere, then those same guys got hired for a job that paid a little and they liked working with me so they got me on the job too. Since then, they've tried to get me (mostly succesfully) on every job they get. Now, somebody else who was the producer on one of those jobs recommended me for a gig doing a full movie score, which I got. Other connections like that have sprouted out from the original stuff as well.

Also, when I first moved out here, I was scouring the internet for "composer needed" jobs and trying to cold call and email every place I could think of. Not a single of those turned into anything.

I guess my point is that, as cliche as it sounds for LA, it seems like it really is who you know. That's the case anywhere to some degree, I suppose, but my current working theory is that there's a geographical reality when it comes to the difference between New York and LA. In New York, there are so many people condensed into such a small place that you can hardly go through your day without knowing more people, therefor greatly increasing the chance that one of those people might be a possible career connection. It was a task avoiding conversations about music with people I'd meet at a bar, or coffee shop or at a gig. Here, I've found that people keep to themselves a bit more, and there's a lot more space to do so. That's one of things that I really like about LA, having the physical and therefor mental space to think my ideas and thoughts through to some sort of fruition before getting caught up in the stream of whatever crazy amazing other thing is happen around me, 'cause in NYC, there was ALWAYS something crazy and amazing happening. I was doing cool stuff all the time, but never getting the time to get around to the stuff I really wanted to do.

I know that was as much about where I was at at the time I moved, but I'd spent my entire life up til that point in NYC, and the day I moved here I totally felt like I was home.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

OMFGawd!! You completely nutshelled L.A. very well. I lived in NYC for ten years. Have been out here for just over 3.

europa78 · Post by **europa78** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:28 pm

Anthony Caruso wrote:This is a long answer, sorry, but it's a chimera question...

I've been working in LA for 5 years now, and my experience is that at bigger places (I came up at Record Plant first as runner then as staff for and have worked freelance at places like The Village) you need to go through the runner stuff first. At RP there were a couple of instances where they hired an experienced assistant straight to assisting when they were short and none of the runners were quite there yet, but for the most part they want you to run first, and they like to promote their own runners if possible. Every single time these assistants who didn't have to run came on a personal recommendation, they weren't hired after cold calling the studio. Management needed someone and solicited them from people they knew, either current assistants or other contacts in the scene.

I'm not saying you couldn't find a staff gig, just keep in mind that stuff is slow out here, especially for the big places, and they are mostly on skeleton crew as it is.

And a staff gig at a bigger place usually means "assistant", and getting thrown engineering gigs when a client without their own engineer books in. The trade off is you may only get 3 or 4 actual engineering gigs a month, but they pay stupid major label money.

On the other hand, there are a ton of places like Bright Street (medium sized studios, I guess) around. I've never tried to find a job at one of them, but I'd imagine it's possible. Again, my bet is that they look to people they know and trust to recommend someone. That's how I've got all my freelance work since I left RP. (Incidentally, I have a week booked at Bright Street in November and I'm pretty psyched to work there, cool place and Pierre is very nice).

It's tough because generally for LA you have to be here to be looking for work, I think partially because there ARE so many good people here already. Sending a resume cross-country usually doesn't land you a gig, though it may get you a "Call me when you get here" response. And these damn recording schools in Hollywood churn out hundreds of kids every few months who couldn't troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag BUT are willing to work for free. Maybe with your experience, that would be a good thing. When people find someone who knows their shit and is easy to get along with, they usually stick close by.

Yes, there are a lot of film/TV etc "post" type studios, but they are a different world. You could show up with a resume sporting 100 Grammys and still they'd stick you in the dup room for 6 months.

Oh yeah, you like live tracking and tape? Be careful what studios you check out. Hip hop, R&B, pop, etc rule the world in most of the big places out here. A few places try to avoid these types of session, but sometimes you gotta book a room, you know? Other places like RP thrive on pop/rap/etc almost exclusively. I saw tape come out once during my stint there, for the Herbie Hancock/Christina Aguilera duet. Ha, so even the one tape session was pop! (This excludes mixing, plenty of mixers go down to 1" or 1/2").

There are a lot of studios out here owned/leased/whatever by producers, film composers, music library companies, etc. That is another option, but maybe better if you'd eventually like to land more in a composing/production role. Again, these places tend to be on the smaller side, or even private. They are more often looking for someone who can track/edit in the DAW as well as many other les "engineer-y" tasks, it usually isn't straight up engineering, more like production assistant.

So to sum it up:

1) It really, REALLY helps to know someone working here in a studio already, or find a NY person who has an LA connection. The "foot in the door" really helps.

2) If you want to do music, look into those studios. If you want to do post, look there.

3) You like tracking musicians/rock/tape/etc, look at Sunset Sound or The Boat or The Village or Ocean Way or Capitol or Westlake.

4) Staff at a "medium" studio I don't really know about, but there are a lot out there. My issue would be if I'm gonna be on call 24/7 as staff for a studio, I better be learning a lot from the very experienced owner/head engineer/whoever, not some clown with a Guit Center credit line.

5) Freelance generally comes after working somewhere as staff for a while, I would be surprised if you came out here and hooked up with freelance gigs right away that weren't pro bono "portfolio builders" on Craigslist.

6) Don't be afraid, there is plenty of work if you know what you're doing and make genuine connections with people you work for when you start out. But you DO have to meet these people one way or another!

7) There is no winter in LA. It is awesome. Don't let people convince you, "Oh, but there's no SEASONS...", I grew up in NH so I know what I am talking about. Fall, winter, and the first 1/2 of spring are highly overrated.

I could probably write a lot more. I am going to stop now and check back later if you have any other questions!

PS- I didn't mention that I really like it out here and have had an extremely educational and fun time so far!!!

Anthony is giving you great info (BTW: I own www.brightstreetrecorders.com). I'm 40 years old have been putzing around studio since I stopped touring in bands. In the 90's if you had my background you could work your way into sessions of friends and acquaintances with some luck and hard work, now it's almost impossible unless you come through a school and can work for years for free. Otherwise you end up in A&R maybe.. l was lucky enough to have begun buying gear as early as 1989 and had built a small but useful reputation as a musician and solid amateur engineer in the music scene. And after working any shitty low level music gigs between the good ones I got called by people who had heard my recordings. My partner Pierre and I both have toured the world in various band (Beck, Rilo Kiley, etc) and have made records for Major labels, hence we have people to connect with and who want to know "what are you up to now" it's significantly easier. That's the "luck" portion that can takes years too pay off and sometimes doesn't. There's no direct route or easy path and no guarantees. I personally am completely unqualified to do anything else, so I own a studio and record music. My last stable job was installing car stereos at Circuit City in 1984.

Regards and best wishes,

Kenny Woods

P.S. Anthony I think we both worked with Jack (John Webster Johns)? I mixed your tracks? Sounded amazing.

Anthony Caruso · Post by **Anthony Caruso** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:27 am

Yeah Kenny, I'm actually starting the session at Bright Street tomorrow morning thru Friday with Remy Delamora. Very much looking forward to it!

And yes I did do the JWJ stuff at my studio Porchlight. Small world man! And thanks for the kind words!

ENOCHKANE · Post by **ENOCHKANE** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:54 pm

Hey "drummer man", thanks for your info. BTW, I followed your studio build on the "Building A Space" forum and loved watching the progress. Hope it's still going strong.

I agree that just standing in line at a coffee shop on Bedford Ave in Williamsburg you will likely be in front of and behind someone that is either in a band, owns a label, works at a label, has a studio, etc. (you get the idea). So, yes it's super easy to make connections here and in my experience those chance meetings led to work or at least finding out that you had a few friends in common. I'm sure it will be different out in LA, but I'm hoping that through friends already living there I will meet some more people.

And hey Kenny! Yeah, I've checked out your studio a bunch and have recommended some clients (who were from LA) to you that I recorded here at the Seaside Lounge. Not sure if any of that panned out. And actually, I was hanging out with my friend Richard Gowen at the Big Star show on Thursday and he said that he has recorded at Bright Street and is friends with you. He plays drums in Robert Francis (and others).

Anyway, I totally hear you about it being very hard to get an in there unless you have some sort of recording degree and a trust fund to live off of. I have neither but that hasn't stopped me before. I think that having a solid background in music (I have a performance degree in Classical guitar and have done for-hire national touring) and being able to work quickly and efficiently has made me a desirable engineer for clients. I learned all i know about engineering the hard way (by doing it, assisting, asking questions and constantly reading) and this for me has paid off. I'm sure that it may be hard to show my value to prospective employers/clients without having a piece of paper that says i know what azimuth and jitter are but i'm gonna do my best!

And lastly, I just wanna say thanks again for all the advice and words of encouragement. Since my last post, I bought my ticket--i'll be landing in LA 12/15!

ENOCHKANE · Post by **ENOCHKANE** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:23 pm

..and BTW I was not discrediting the recording school route by any means. Several of my friends have degrees from Recording Sciences programs and got a lot out of them. I just chose a different path and it's worked well for me so far.

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