Third Monk Mocha Stout

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Post by @?,*???&? » Fri May 14, 2010 11:56 am

JWL wrote:I've thought about doing a commercial brewing thing, but you have to have a license to do that. Way too harsh penalties if you get caught.....
Yeah, the laws are nuts and mostly derived from the era of prohibition- which has little to do with the homebrew/microbrew thing.

btw, we have Jimmy Carter to thank for being to brew at home. Who knew?

Also, as I haven't sold any beer yet, it appears I am a "Nano Brewery" at this point:

B:10 What are the guidelines for a Nano brewery?

Nano-breweries, which we define as very small brewery operations, are springing up across the country. Nano brewing is a result of the steady appeal for craft-brewed beers and the beneficiary of the growing home brewing movement. We issue this advisory as a reminder that any beer produced for sale by home brewers is not exempt from Federal excise tax payment.

Section 5092 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (IRC) defines a brewer as a person who brews beer or produces beer for sale. Section 5053(e) of the IRC provides an exemption from Federal excise tax payment for beer that is produced for personal or family use.

Pursuant to ? 5053(e) any adult may, without payment of tax, produce beer for personal or family use and not for sale. The aggregate amount of beer exempt from tax under this subsection with respect to any household shall not exceed?

(1) 200 gallons per calendar year if there are 2 or more adults in such household, or

(2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only 1 adult in such household.

For purposes of this subsection, the term ?adult? means an individual who has attained 18 years of age, or the minimum age (if any) established by law applicable in the locality in which the household is situated at which beer may be sold to individuals, whichever is greater.

Persons who produce beer for sale, no matter how small the amount, must qualify as a brewer under the provisions of 26 U.S.C. 5401. In addition to paying the Federal excise tax on any beer that is removed from the brewery for consumption or sale, consumer packages must contain the government health warning statement (see 27 CFR part 16). Further, the labeling and advertising provisions of the Federal Alcohol Administration Act, which are found at 27 U.S.C 205, may apply. Regulations implementing ? 105, as they relate to malt beverages, are set forth in part 7 of the TTB regulations (27 CFR part 7), Labeling and Advertising of Malt Beverages.

If you have a question regarding whether your operation qualifies for the exemption as found in ? 5053(e) or whether you need to complete the brewery qualification process pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 5401, please contact the TTB National Revenue Center at 1-877-882-3277 or e-mail at: ttbquestions@ttb.treas.gov.

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Post by chris harris » Fri May 14, 2010 6:10 pm

Sounds like you're the home recordist of the brewing industry. I'm sure you're ruining the beer business. I'm also sure that you'll properly file all of those taxes and acquire any necessary licenses before you take the step up from nano brewing and actually produce some "legitimate" product for sale.

Good luck!

I honestly have very little interest in brewing. I simply thought it worth noting that it's hilarious to see you dabbling in this when you've taken such a firm stance against home recording. Bad monkey!!

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Post by @?,*???&? » Fri May 14, 2010 9:08 pm

subatomic pieces wrote:Sounds like you're the home recordist of the brewing industry. I'm sure you're ruining the beer business. I'm also sure that you'll properly file all of those taxes and acquire any necessary licenses before you take the step up from nano brewing and actually produce some "legitimate" product for sale.

Good luck!

I honestly have very little interest in brewing. I simply thought it worth noting that it's hilarious to see you dabbling in this when you've taken such a firm stance against home recording. Bad monkey!!
Shallow jab at best, because I don't know when the last time was a homebrewer booked time at a 'real' brewery to make beer, do you?

The great thing about it is that you can't download beer on the internet!

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Post by Tims96 » Mon May 17, 2010 10:20 pm

Yay home-brewing! Rather off topic, but a fun discussion nonetheless. I've only brewed once myself (called it the Gold Soundz Golden Ale in a tribute to Pavement), but I've helped a number of my friends brew a few times. A great way to get delicious, cheap beer.

I think the crafts of recording and brewing are remarkably similar. Both require some magic blend of creativity and technical skill and knowledge. Both have "rules" that many say should never be broken for certain styles, though somehow many of the best recordings and beers seem to break those very rules. Many smaller or mid-sized players in both industries agree that that the big guys output mostly unremarkable drek these days (i.e. over-compressed whatever/bland "Light American Lagers.")

To the OP: what else is going in there to make it cost $22 for six bottles? My batch was around $4/six pack if I recall correctly. Granted, it was pretty basic, but even my friend's porter with uber-expensive malts was under $10 for a six pack. Not knocking your recipe, just curious!

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Post by @?,*???&? » Sat May 22, 2010 10:19 am

Evian water at $2.35 per bottle (5x) $11.75 total
Both hopped (2x) and unhopped (1x) extract $17.35 total
Bottles at .41 apiece: $9.84 for a case
Pure Vanilla extract at $5.95 a bottle
Fuggle and Willemette Hops at $1.39 per type: $2.70 total
Booster $2.95
Bottle caps at .03 apiece: .72 cents total for a case
Brown Sugar: $4.95 a bag (although I only use 1 cup)
Coffee from local craft roaster: $13.00 per bag, although only about 3/4 cup is used (estimate $1.50 needed for brew)
Liquid Stout yeast $5.95
Shipping: $10.85

Total price: $74.51

$3.10 per bottle and the labor isn't free (or is it?)
Last edited by @?,*???&? on Sat May 22, 2010 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Sat May 22, 2010 10:21 am

I wanted to add here that I regularly buy the Belgian Beer Gulden Drak for around $16 a 4-pack.

Also, consider what you'd pay in a pub for a pint or a bottle of beer? $4 to $6?

Home brew is definitely a value compared to going out!

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Post by Artifex » Sat May 22, 2010 2:51 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:Evian water at $2.35 per bottle (5x) $11.75 total
Both hopped (2x) and unhopped (1x) extract $17.35 total
Bottles at .41 apiece: $9.84 for a case
Pure Vanilla extract at $5.95 a bottle
Fuggle and Willemette Hops at $1.39 per type: $2.70 total
Booster $2.95
Bottle caps at .03 apiece: .72 cents total for a case
Brown Sugar: $4.95 a bag (although I only use 1 cup)
Coffee from local craft roaster: $13.00 per bag, although only about 3/4 cup is used (estimate $1.50 needed for brew)
Liquid Stout yeast $5.95
Shipping: $10.85

Total price: $74.51

$3.10 per bottle and the labor isn't free (or is it?)
Wow.

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Post by Artifex » Sat May 22, 2010 2:51 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:I wanted to add here that I regularly buy the Belgian Beer Gulden Drak for around $16 a 4-pack.

Also, consider what you'd pay in a pub for a pint or a bottle of beer? $4 to $6?

Home brew is definitely a value compared to going out!
Wow!

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Post by @?,*???&? » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:56 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:I wanted to add here that I regularly buy the Belgian Beer Gulden Drak for around $16 a 4-pack.

Also, consider what you'd pay in a pub for a pint or a bottle of beer? $4 to $6?

Home brew is definitely a value compared to going out!
Btw, here's a link to the Gulden Drak:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/48 ... gh&start=0

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Post by roygbiv » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:11 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:....Shallow jab at best, because I don't know when the last time was a homebrewer booked time at a 'real' brewery to make beer, do you?
Actually, there are several microbreweries in Portland where you can do this. Or at least you could, I haven't home brewed in years.
@?,*???&? wrote: The great thing about it is that you can't download beer on the internet!
This is an excellent point, but is only valid because of the fundamental difference between analog and digital.
@?,*???&? wrote: Evian water at $2.35 per bottle (5x) $11.75 total
Both hopped (2x) and unhopped (1x) extract $17.35 total
Bottles at .41 apiece: $9.84 for a case
Pure Vanilla extract at $5.95 a bottle
Fuggle and Willemette Hops at $1.39 per type: $2.70 total
Booster $2.95
Bottle caps at .03 apiece: .72 cents total for a case
Brown Sugar: $4.95 a bag (although I only use 1 cup)
Coffee from local craft roaster: $13.00 per bag, although only about 3/4 cup is used (estimate $1.50 needed for brew)
Liquid Stout yeast $5.95
Shipping: $10.85

Total price: $74.51

$3.10 per bottle and the labor isn't free (or is it?)
I think the fundamental problems with your production costs are what you are paying for water, and that you apparently don't re-use your bottles.

(think of the appropriate hard-drive and/or tape analogies if it helps).

BTW - thanks for the Gulden Drak link, I'll give that stuff a try.

Here's a link you might enjoy - the (in my opinion) best local micro/nano brewery in Portland (which not something to be said lightly):


http://www.hairofthedog.com/
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Post by jmiller » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:14 pm

I wonder if you could save on water if you went to one of those places where they dispense it from a machine. They used to be outside grocery stores back in the day, but I sometimes see "shops" for them around L.A. I once had a boss who made me take his 5gallon jugs to the local "health" store which dispensed reverse-osmosis water. It would probably be cheaper than buying a box of Evian bottles, is probably better water AND would have less waste.

Then again, maybe it wouldn't have the "flavor" of something like spring water or well water. It is supposed that the flavorful well-water at the Rochefort abbey contributes quite a bit to the flavor (all three Rochefort "flavors"- 6, 8, and 10 are the same recipe with progressively less water).

Ah, Guldendraak. That's the stuff, man. Here's a pic I took of a retired Guldendraak statue inside the belfry in Ghent (a shiny, new one sits atop the belfry):


Image

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Post by @?,*???&? » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:02 am

jmiller wrote:They used to be outside grocery stores back in the day, but I sometimes see "shops" for them around L.A. I once had a boss who made me take his 5gallon jugs to the local "health" store which dispensed reverse-osmosis water.
Reverse osmosis water is NOT recommended for brewing. Water with high mineral content is.

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Post by Jay Reynolds » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:42 am

Here's a nice imperial stout that I just discovered at a local beer-tasting. Also brewed with mocha -
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/3818/49286
Prog out with your cog out.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:54 pm

werd clock wrote:Here's a nice imperial stout that I just discovered at a local beer-tasting. Also brewed with mocha -
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/3818/49286
Interesting if they are actually using Hershey's chocolate syrup. Certainly, during the boil, that could easily be added instead of an alternate type of sugar.

For fans of Stout, this one is good too and comes in a Liquid Nitrogen Widget can for that 'Guiness tap' style:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/664/73

This can be a bit bland with a straight chocolate flavor though.

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Post by cgarges » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:57 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:For fans of Stout, this one is good too and comes in a Liquid Nitrogen Widget can for that 'Guiness tap' style:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/664/73
Interesting that when I mentioned that one to you, you told me, "Young's Double Chocolate Stout is too much chocolate malt, texture is weird."

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