Tunecore says typical artist sells $179 of music a year

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed May 11, 2011 11:07 am

dwlb wrote:Well, Kickstarter seems to be having some success, so crowdfunding is a proven concept at this point. This is slightly different but could work if the artists involved can produce enough material that the "subscription" is worth it to the consumer.
Yes, but like ebay, there's a threshold. I've posted projects on Kickstarter and the money has come up short.

I wish there were metrics posting what type of projects get funded for what amount of money.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed May 11, 2011 11:13 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:Okay, suppose this, "What if the only goal of a release is to make it's money back?"
what kind of crazy person would have that as a goal? let alone "the only" goal. would you want to listen to that record?
I just had a conversation with a guy who wants me to help him produce a sampler and his only goal is to release it for free.

I then started putting together the budget for him and he got the picture. Why spend $10,000 making a record if it's only gonna sell $179?

Caveat is, he says he really doesn't want to press hard copies.

Which equals = SUICIDE

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Post by JGriffin » Wed May 11, 2011 11:20 am

@?,*???&? wrote:
dwlb wrote:Well, Kickstarter seems to be having some success, so crowdfunding is a proven concept at this point. This is slightly different but could work if the artists involved can produce enough material that the "subscription" is worth it to the consumer.
Yes, but like ebay, there's a threshold. I've posted projects on Kickstarter and the money has come up short.

I wish there were metrics posting what type of projects get funded for what amount of money.
What my colleagues in the film and theater fields are finding is that Kickstarter --like other fundraising tools-- is not a set-it-and-forget-it type of thing. You need to do the same amount of hustling and promo and outreach that you'd do to get folks out to a show.

And, of course, you need to be offering a quality product, something people will actually want to help bring into the world. Kickstarter isn't a charity.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed May 11, 2011 11:36 am

@?,*???&? wrote: I just had a conversation with a guy who wants me to help him produce a sampler and his only goal is to release it for free.

I then started putting together the budget for him and he got the picture. Why spend $10,000 making a record if it's only gonna sell $179?
what does 'produce a sampler' mean specifically? can you elaborate on that?

if the bands had their shit together i could happily make about 3 legit barcoded records for 10 grand.
Caveat is, he says he really doesn't want to press hard copies.

Which equals = SUICIDE
right, because people are just flocking to stores to buy cds.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed May 11, 2011 11:42 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:if the bands had their shit together i could happily make about 3 legit barcoded records for 10 grand.
I love your verbiage. I have trained you well grasshopper!

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed May 11, 2011 11:45 am

dwlb wrote:What my colleagues in the film and theater fields are finding is that Kickstarter --like other fundraising tools-- is not a set-it-and-forget-it type of thing. You need to do the same amount of hustling and promo and outreach that you'd do to get folks out to a show.

And, of course, you need to be offering a quality product, something people will actually want to help bring into the world. Kickstarter isn't a charity.
I've been approached by a new entity geared towards a kickstarter concept specifically for the indie musician/indie record making community. Their own litmus test is to work with *real* industry producers and engineers that have an established track record and credentials. It's in beta stage right now, but I'll let you know when it pans out.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed May 11, 2011 11:48 am

@?,*???&? wrote: I have trained you well grasshopper!
you haven't trained shit.

answer my question!

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Post by JGriffin » Wed May 11, 2011 11:53 am

@?,*???&? wrote:
dwlb wrote:What my colleagues in the film and theater fields are finding is that Kickstarter --like other fundraising tools-- is not a set-it-and-forget-it type of thing. You need to do the same amount of hustling and promo and outreach that you'd do to get folks out to a show.

And, of course, you need to be offering a quality product, something people will actually want to help bring into the world. Kickstarter isn't a charity.
I've been approached by a new entity geared towards a kickstarter concept specifically for the indie musician/indie record making community. Their own litmus test is to work with *real* industry producers and engineers that have an established track record and credentials. It's in beta stage right now, but I'll let you know when it pans out.
Be better to work with established marketers and advertisers with an established track record, really.
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Post by JGriffin » Wed May 11, 2011 11:54 am

@?,*???&? wrote:Okay, suppose this, "What if the only goal of a release is to make it's money back?"

That would mean that the artist would be paid for their labor- like someone working hourly in a grocery store. Maybe each disc should therefore post how many man hours were spent making that disc. Once that cost is re-couped through sales, the disc should become free.

Does a guy who repairs brakes make money on the brake-job he did AFTER the repair is done? No. He only makes money doing the repair. Is there any 'intangible' production going on in the form of some kind of intellectual property rights in his work? That's debatable, but maybe.
Aren't you the guy who in the past has advocated for mix royalties for engineers?
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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed May 11, 2011 12:00 pm

dwlb wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:Okay, suppose this, "What if the only goal of a release is to make it's money back?"

That would mean that the artist would be paid for their labor- like someone working hourly in a grocery store. Maybe each disc should therefore post how many man hours were spent making that disc. Once that cost is re-couped through sales, the disc should become free.

Does a guy who repairs brakes make money on the brake-job he did AFTER the repair is done? No. He only makes money doing the repair. Is there any 'intangible' production going on in the form of some kind of intellectual property rights in his work? That's debatable, but maybe.
Aren't you the guy who in the past has advocated for mix royalties for engineers?
In this zany world, it's a swervy-curvy road. For example, look at the Red Wings path in this years Stanley Cup play-offs?

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Post by fossiltooth » Wed May 11, 2011 12:45 pm

So, most people who do music don't make money at it. No big surprise there. Wasn't the same true of most major label bands?

I appreciate that it can be frustrating to live in a world where there's so much noise, and not enough filters to help us wade through it all. Still, I don't think that making amateurs feel insecure about being amateurs is a good strategy- for music or for the studio business. Maybe it was a good business strategy 20 years ago, but today, I think it's sure to backfire.

Today, making money isn't everyone's goal with putting out a record. Should we chide families for buying pianos and paying for lessons just because their kids might not turn into Rachmaninoff?

It's also helpful to remember that we all start as amateurs. And, some very major bands went through the process of putting out small 'illegitimate' releases before blowing up huge.

I say the problem today aren't the pervasive truths that people love to make music, and that's it's hard to make money doing it- The problem today is our lack of great filters and trustworthy outlets.
Last edited by fossiltooth on Wed May 11, 2011 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Bro Shark » Wed May 11, 2011 12:47 pm

It first glance I thought this said "Tunacore," like some dumb new trend the mall kids are into or something.

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Post by JGriffin » Wed May 11, 2011 1:05 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:
dwlb wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:Okay, suppose this, "What if the only goal of a release is to make it's money back?"

That would mean that the artist would be paid for their labor- like someone working hourly in a grocery store. Maybe each disc should therefore post how many man hours were spent making that disc. Once that cost is re-couped through sales, the disc should become free.

Does a guy who repairs brakes make money on the brake-job he did AFTER the repair is done? No. He only makes money doing the repair. Is there any 'intangible' production going on in the form of some kind of intellectual property rights in his work? That's debatable, but maybe.
Aren't you the guy who in the past has advocated for mix royalties for engineers?
In this zany world, it's a swervy-curvy road. For example, look at the Red Wings path in this years Stanley Cup play-offs?
I live in Chicago, and the Blackhawks are a client. Hockey season is over as far as I'm concerned.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno

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Post by JGriffin » Wed May 11, 2011 1:06 pm

Bro Shark wrote:It first glance I thought this said "Tunacore," like some dumb new trend the mall kids are into or something.
You can tune a piano, but you can't Tunacore.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno

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Post by Bro Shark » Wed May 11, 2011 1:26 pm

Justin, great post above. Well said.

Being an amateur/hobbyist musician myself, I've put out a few CDs. Some on indie labels, some self-released. Only one has "broke even." The rest cost me my own personal money. In some cases it's not for lack of trying. We went on tours, went crazy on publicity, all of it. In some cases it just wasn't in the cards to make money. You could definitely make an argument that the music wasn't good enough. You could make some other arguments as well.

Reading some of the things said here can be discouraging, but I won't stop doing what I love to do. I love creating music, and I love it when people hear it and enjoy it, even if the business side seems to be a dead end.

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