My gear in someone else's studio. ??'s
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My gear in someone else's studio. ??'s
Story-
There is a studio in my small town owned by a retiring live sound engineer. He's a pretty big name and has been all over the world doing live production for many huge acts for many years. He's retiring from touring and moving/upgrading his studio space. The new building is great. He's got a great design - 2 rooms big and small, 2 control rooms, iso boths, lesson spaces, office spaces for the studio and a couple other businesses, a retail space too. He's got a ton of instruments, mics, good converters through an OK console. Digital only. Blah blah blah. He's a name and a really great guy. Thusly, the place is, and will continue to be, booked solid.
The thing is- he has little outboard front end gear.
Enter me. I'm a hobbyist engineer/band guy. I own a pretty good amount of decent to nice recording gear. All things that I've accumulated over the years. Basically I've got 16 channel strips and a clucth of pretty good mics to go with them (Royer, Coles, Manley, UA, Avalon, Bock, Peluso, Earthworks). Instruments, pedals, tape echos, etc. etc. It's worth a considerable sum of money. I also repair/build tube amps and recording gear...
So I approched this very nice studio owner and offered to incorporate my front end into his soon-to-be awesome studio in exchange for my use of the space and his gear during off hours, nights weekends or when no one else has it booked. He agreed. It's a handshake deal.
The place is under construction so I haven't moved my gear in yet. In the mean time I've had time to think about the arrangement. I'm not nor ever have been in business as a studio owner or anything else. I was just excited to finally have a great space for my music/recording life to reside in. That's cool n'all but- I've failed to consider my offer to him as deeply as I feel I maybe should've.
The gear's dollar value is several scores of thousands of dollars so I've got some questions-
1. As an investor in the studio-
Because my music/recording have only been an intense hobby all my life, It's been tough for me to think of my gear as a business/potentially profitable investment. If I go forward with the stated handshake deal, I will in all likelihood, be the single largest outside investor in this new studio business. Except that I'd have no protection for my gear, and no profit to me, other than the off hour studio time. He can and certainly will operate with or without me in the picture. But the gear brings the place to a higher level. It's worth something to him.
So should I maybe-
A. Go into business for myself as a gear rental entity of some sort with the studio as my client? Maybe keep it simple and attractive by charging only the cost of maintaining (insurance, repair) the gear?
B. If I go into business, what is the best way to do so? DBA?, LLC? Other?
C. If I create a simple business, what about taxes? I think I'd like to keep such a business separate from my personal finances, but I'm not sure at which point that should occur.
2. Insurance-
A. At the lowest level, and if I don't start an official 'business', would it be prudent to ask him to cover, in addition to the off hour studio use, the cost of insuring my gear?
B. Or could his insurance cover my gear? Seems odd..
Note- the value of the gear is greater than what my homeowners off-site insurance will cover. Home owners insurance won't cover it anyway if it's in a business making profit.
3. In addition to the gear thing, I also build and repair amps, pedals, guitars and analogue gear so I could/would take care of the repair of my gear and possibly the studios other gear too.
What could this count for, if anything?
Thanks for any thoughts.
There is a studio in my small town owned by a retiring live sound engineer. He's a pretty big name and has been all over the world doing live production for many huge acts for many years. He's retiring from touring and moving/upgrading his studio space. The new building is great. He's got a great design - 2 rooms big and small, 2 control rooms, iso boths, lesson spaces, office spaces for the studio and a couple other businesses, a retail space too. He's got a ton of instruments, mics, good converters through an OK console. Digital only. Blah blah blah. He's a name and a really great guy. Thusly, the place is, and will continue to be, booked solid.
The thing is- he has little outboard front end gear.
Enter me. I'm a hobbyist engineer/band guy. I own a pretty good amount of decent to nice recording gear. All things that I've accumulated over the years. Basically I've got 16 channel strips and a clucth of pretty good mics to go with them (Royer, Coles, Manley, UA, Avalon, Bock, Peluso, Earthworks). Instruments, pedals, tape echos, etc. etc. It's worth a considerable sum of money. I also repair/build tube amps and recording gear...
So I approched this very nice studio owner and offered to incorporate my front end into his soon-to-be awesome studio in exchange for my use of the space and his gear during off hours, nights weekends or when no one else has it booked. He agreed. It's a handshake deal.
The place is under construction so I haven't moved my gear in yet. In the mean time I've had time to think about the arrangement. I'm not nor ever have been in business as a studio owner or anything else. I was just excited to finally have a great space for my music/recording life to reside in. That's cool n'all but- I've failed to consider my offer to him as deeply as I feel I maybe should've.
The gear's dollar value is several scores of thousands of dollars so I've got some questions-
1. As an investor in the studio-
Because my music/recording have only been an intense hobby all my life, It's been tough for me to think of my gear as a business/potentially profitable investment. If I go forward with the stated handshake deal, I will in all likelihood, be the single largest outside investor in this new studio business. Except that I'd have no protection for my gear, and no profit to me, other than the off hour studio time. He can and certainly will operate with or without me in the picture. But the gear brings the place to a higher level. It's worth something to him.
So should I maybe-
A. Go into business for myself as a gear rental entity of some sort with the studio as my client? Maybe keep it simple and attractive by charging only the cost of maintaining (insurance, repair) the gear?
B. If I go into business, what is the best way to do so? DBA?, LLC? Other?
C. If I create a simple business, what about taxes? I think I'd like to keep such a business separate from my personal finances, but I'm not sure at which point that should occur.
2. Insurance-
A. At the lowest level, and if I don't start an official 'business', would it be prudent to ask him to cover, in addition to the off hour studio use, the cost of insuring my gear?
B. Or could his insurance cover my gear? Seems odd..
Note- the value of the gear is greater than what my homeowners off-site insurance will cover. Home owners insurance won't cover it anyway if it's in a business making profit.
3. In addition to the gear thing, I also build and repair amps, pedals, guitars and analogue gear so I could/would take care of the repair of my gear and possibly the studios other gear too.
What could this count for, if anything?
Thanks for any thoughts.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?
I can't answer most of your questions, but if it were me I would talk to your insurance company to see what they would cover, in the event of theft/fire/etc...on top of his insurance (get that info?). Before you brought anything over, I would also suggest documenting serial numbers, taking extensive photographs, receipts, anything that ties the gear to you. I would also gain written agreement through him of exactly what your arrangement will be.
I can say from experience...last year I had an arrangement with a studio...super nice owner. Mediocre gear..but it was a space. So when I worked there I would bring my own. I had the option to use a safe for my mics, and I did leave some basic things like 57s that were not very valuable in there just for convenience. I inherently don't trust people, and there were other people using the studio that I deemed much less than trustworthy... When I found that the other people had access to the safe, I pulled my mics out. Shortly after I left the space entirely. 3 months later the place got robbed. Due to the location and lack of advertising...I have to assume it was robbed by one of the folks I didn't trust. There wasn't much of value except for the PTHD system and Mac Pro...but everything was taken down to stupid things like guitar stands.
Dodged a bullet.
I can say from experience...last year I had an arrangement with a studio...super nice owner. Mediocre gear..but it was a space. So when I worked there I would bring my own. I had the option to use a safe for my mics, and I did leave some basic things like 57s that were not very valuable in there just for convenience. I inherently don't trust people, and there were other people using the studio that I deemed much less than trustworthy... When I found that the other people had access to the safe, I pulled my mics out. Shortly after I left the space entirely. 3 months later the place got robbed. Due to the location and lack of advertising...I have to assume it was robbed by one of the folks I didn't trust. There wasn't much of value except for the PTHD system and Mac Pro...but everything was taken down to stupid things like guitar stands.
Dodged a bullet.
- Snarl 12/8
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I'd be super leery of this. I'm guessing Mics and Pres are going to take the most abuse out of anything aside from mic cables and headphones. Is the "great guy" going to be the only person ever touching that stuff? Or will freelancers/interns/assistants/cats/boyfriends be using the space?
Don't go just on a handshake. I'd get something in fairly detailed writing and I think it would be fair to include him paying for maintenance/replacement/insurance of your stuff if he breaks it and/or gets it stolen. My main goal would be to make him think it through as thoroughly as you do.
Maybe he doesn't want your top notch stuff in there all the time if it's on him if something happens. He's gotta have equal or greater "skin in the game." Some people are happy to have awesome stuff fall in their lap, but they don't want to be responsible for it. They'd much rather deal with average or crappy shit so they don't have to worry as much. When you show him your beautiful shiny mics is it a happy smile or a nervous smile. Go with your gut.
Don't go just on a handshake. I'd get something in fairly detailed writing and I think it would be fair to include him paying for maintenance/replacement/insurance of your stuff if he breaks it and/or gets it stolen. My main goal would be to make him think it through as thoroughly as you do.
Maybe he doesn't want your top notch stuff in there all the time if it's on him if something happens. He's gotta have equal or greater "skin in the game." Some people are happy to have awesome stuff fall in their lap, but they don't want to be responsible for it. They'd much rather deal with average or crappy shit so they don't have to worry as much. When you show him your beautiful shiny mics is it a happy smile or a nervous smile. Go with your gut.
That's why I only play used guitars, and date ugly girls.Snarl 12/8 wrote: Some people are happy to have awesome stuff fall in their lap, but they don't want to be responsible for it. They'd much rather deal with average or crappy shit so they don't have to worry as much.
(I know the above was very un-PC, so if you are a ugly girl, call me.)
there are a lot of things you could do.
The 'rental thing' is the stickiest arrangement. Hard for the guy at the studio. He's got his place and he charges X for it but you have to pay an extra Y for all this other stuff.
As a client I'm always leery of those type of arrangements.
Couple other ideas.
You could charge the guy monthly to rent your stuff and stiplulate that he's responsible for the upkeep while the gear is at his studio.
If you do enough recording yourself you might want to get the value in "time" at his studio. You provide all that stuff and you get a couple/few days per month. He'd still have to be responsible for the upkeep of your gear while it was in his place.
Hopefully you'll get his amp repair buisness. A studio's referral could really help you get more clients. If he's got room in his new place maybe you could move in?
that could be trade worthy?
The 'rental thing' is the stickiest arrangement. Hard for the guy at the studio. He's got his place and he charges X for it but you have to pay an extra Y for all this other stuff.
As a client I'm always leery of those type of arrangements.
Couple other ideas.
You could charge the guy monthly to rent your stuff and stiplulate that he's responsible for the upkeep while the gear is at his studio.
If you do enough recording yourself you might want to get the value in "time" at his studio. You provide all that stuff and you get a couple/few days per month. He'd still have to be responsible for the upkeep of your gear while it was in his place.
Hopefully you'll get his amp repair buisness. A studio's referral could really help you get more clients. If he's got room in his new place maybe you could move in?
that could be trade worthy?
- Nick Sevilla
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