Is there Soul in Indie?

[TheForgotten]

Indie: tight pants

Emo: baggy pants

True Metal: No Pants

[MoreSpaceEcho]

[mertmo]

wow, this thread just reached a kind of beautiful apex.

[RefD]

*curls up under running shower and cries*

[madtho]

*curls up under running shower and cries*

no dude, that's totally emo.

-mad

[MoreSpaceEcho]

that pic is still making me laugh.

[dsw]

What kind of mic should I buy?

[RefD]

What kind of mic should I buy?

RE-20

no, wait...SM7!

AAAAGGHH!!

[Knights Who Say Neve]

Good criticism, and I think Jones' qualifies as that, makes you think harder about things.

Yeah, it's really great when a pseudointellectual make people "think harder" by spouting bogus racial platitudes disguised as sociology.

You seem to yearn for a world where nobody offers thoughts/arguments of culture or art. Is that what you want? What a boring place that would be.

Making unfounded assumptions about my motivations is a sophomoric, pseudo-intellectual way to argue. So Fuck Off.

The irony is too rich... I feel cavities coming on even as I read. On a final note, if you don't enjoy criticism--even that which you disagree with--fair enough, then don't engage in discussions around it. It does no harm.

You managed to miss by a country mile every point I was (rather flippantly) trying to make. But you do have a sense of humor, at least.

[numberthirty]

As I'm listening to the Pitchfork Forkcast this morning I was reminded of this article: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/m ... frerejones

When it first was published, I had a knee jerk reaction that it was full of shit. But on some more reflection, spurred by the Forkcast and other hunts for new music (e.g., the SWSX site) I'm not so sure anymore. There is something missing from a lot of indie music. It's ephemeral for sure, but it's there... er... not there. For me "soul" in music means there's a sense of urgency (not tempo) that exists for the artist around communicating whatever it is they're wanting to communicate. It's like they'd die if they didn't get it out. I know this is cheesie crit-speak, but it's kind of interesting.

Anyways, curious what other people think. Granted, this is a subject of grand generalizations, but that's the fun innit?

Jeez Louise, this guy who wrote this article is a bonehead.

In the space of a four page article and a fifteen minute wankfest of an interview, he manages to make it clear that he totally missed out on Gentleman and Black Love by the Afghan Whigs. It also seems like he's got no clue when it comes to the Make-Up or Weird War.

Last, it always sucks to see people taking pot-shots at Wilco who don't seem to have anything more than a cursory knowldge of what they were doing during the pre-YHF era.

I saw Wilco play the Vic theater in Chicago right after Being There was released. They did a version of Box Full of Letters where the song was essentially recast as a soul song. Words Fail. It still goes down as one of the finest musical performances I think I'll ever get to see.

Anyways, I think we could go in on getting this guy a clue. Ending on why the Whitney version of "I Will Always Love You" is great sold me on that.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

i agree with some of the things he says, i guess, but i have to wonder why is he bothering to say them? i mean, he's going to decemberists and shins shows and complaining that they're not as rhythmically stimulating as james brown or the meters?

DUH.

[;ivlunsdystf]

i agree with some of the things he says, i guess, but i have to wonder why is he bothering to say them?

He likes his job, and he keeps it by writing things that will attract enough attention to get cited and discussed and so forth.

[JGriffin]

we're playing right into his hands.

[Chris_Avakian]

about 98 percent of "indie" bands just make me want to spit...

[mertmo]

about 98 percent of "indie" bands just make me want to spit...

I agree, I'm not very taken with the genre. There are a VERY FEW bright spots on
the map for me, but in general... no thanks.

I think the guy that wrote this article had a general feeling and impression about the
lack of soul in this genre. I happen to totally agree with his general impression, but
I think he ended up chasing a very narrow way of justifying his impression. It's a
much more intangible thing than "this music is missing these particular rhythms".

The way I see it is that modern rock music is STILL operating in a violent reaction
to the 80's. During the 80's everything that was passionate and delivered with good
technique was pushed way over the edge into total camp and flashiness. The
younger generation of rockers (in my experience anyway) just can't pick out the good
parts of all that, all they can see is the "cheese". I think all that nonsense made
such a huge cultural impression that the new generation of rockers is STILL running
in the other direction. So basically guitar playing is still bad. And especially
disturbing and depressing is that great passionate singing is still 'bad'.
All these singers have the ability to sing with the "effect" of emotion, but at the
same time they are avoiding revealing any real passion or real emotional connection
to the material they are singing. Because revealing that much is far to uncool for
this crowd. The hip pitchfork factor is just overwhelming, it's more important to
be hip than it is to be good.

Also it seems to me like a good SIMPLE arrangement is sort of passe. I don't think
the art is really in the 'songs' anymore, it's in the arranging. If it's not fancy or
clever, it's not good. (at least I see this in my own band's arranging) Sort of
weird and disturbing to me. That right there is a huge step in the opposite
direction of "soul" music IMO.

Some of this can just be chalked up to evolution. Music changes, what are
you gonna do?
I know my theories may seem like a bit of a stretch, especially the the whole
reaction to the 80's thing, but man that really is how I see things in the world of
indie rock. And it's not like I'm waiting for shredding solos and hair spray to come
back, I could do without that nonsense as well. But I just see that so much of
what makes music soulful and great is just plain MISSING now.