Songs with good/bad bridges

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;ivlunsdystf
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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Mon May 05, 2008 1:47 pm

percussion boy wrote:
Maybe it's harder to build a working bridge without some knowledge of key changes -- which some musicians don't bother to get. Changing the key center or at least the harmonic vibe lets the listener know they're not in Kansas anymore.
What is this ... how do you say ... "key changes"?

The standard routine is to drop to the relative minor (as somebody mentioned) or to modulate up a whole step (as we have discussed)

When I hear either of those two tricks, though, I think "oh, it's the bridge".

"Fool In the Rain" doesn't evoke that same ho-hum response in my head. It is, though, just a reworking of the basic melody/progression from the hook, sort of, although it sure sounds completely different if you're not listening with analytic ears.

But: I just heard 'You Can Call Me Al' for the three thousandth time today, and noted that the 'bridge' is a bunch of 'oohs' in the home key, followed by that rapid hand drumming deal, followed by the fretless bass freak-out. That works, IMO, without modulating. I wonder if that 'bridge' was written on the fly, in the studio, with suits hovering. It's more of a performance bridge than a songwriting bridge, I say.

I will check out that Steely Dan bridge and see how much it annoys me.

I would like to see a list of tricks to use in a bridge. I have academic articles about hooks and they are very useful to browse when I'm stuck halfway through a song/arrangement and I need a push.

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Post by jv » Mon May 05, 2008 2:04 pm

lysander wrote:One I don't look forward to is in "The Waiting" by Tom Petty. To me, the bridge kind of sucks the energy out of the song until the guitar solo kicks in. But I could be wrong.
That reminds me of a bridge that bugs me- "American Girl" by Tom Petty. It definitely sounds like a case where they thought they needed another part so they made up something quick and stuck it in there.
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Post by AstroDan » Mon May 05, 2008 3:23 pm

Okay, quick mini poll...

Which do you, or don't you, consider a bridge:

A) Kiss' 'Rock and Roll All Nite' - the drum break down "you keep on shouting, you keep on shouting" part right before the chorus,

...or...

B) The 'Veronica' thing.


Despite my harping about it, I actually think 'A' is more deserving of the term.
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Post by radical recording » Mon May 05, 2008 4:05 pm

One of my favourites is the middle section in Monkey Man.
Every time it comes up I think, "How could the Stones muster up something so beautiful?"
I'd have to disagree with that one. I heard this song just yesterday and still think it's one of the best examples of a rock 'n' roll song out there.

And yes there are a lotta bad\awkward bridges out there but nearly everytime I turn on country radio I hear really obviously bad\awkward choruses--how do they let those slide by?
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Post by Lukey » Mon May 05, 2008 7:27 pm

Queen's "don't stop me now"

I always considered the "pre-solo" bit where they chant the title over a drum break to be almost hilarious, but enough to make me listen to it over and over again.

Not sure if you all would consider that a bridge or not.

Also, on a slightly more obscure note... First Heart Attack by Starflyer 59. The ol' half-tempo dreamy "bring in the synth" thing. The bridge completely makes the song for me.

I don't know that a good song has ever been ruined by the bridge for me.

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Post by JGriffin » Mon May 05, 2008 9:08 pm

AstroDan wrote:Okay, quick mini poll...

Which do you, or don't you, consider a bridge:

A) Kiss' 'Rock and Roll All Nite' - the drum break down "you keep on shouting, you keep on shouting" part right before the chorus,

...or...

B) The 'Veronica' thing.


Despite my harping about it, I actually think 'A' is more deserving of the term.

We must have entirely different understandings of the term then. I consider the KISS thing a "pre-chorus." And the Veronica thing a "bridge" or, since it's McCartney, a "middle eight."
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Post by RefD » Mon May 05, 2008 9:20 pm

dwlb wrote:
AstroDan wrote:Okay, quick mini poll...

Which do you, or don't you, consider a bridge:

A) Kiss' 'Rock and Roll All Nite' - the drum break down "you keep on shouting, you keep on shouting" part right before the chorus,

...or...

B) The 'Veronica' thing.


Despite my harping about it, I actually think 'A' is more deserving of the term.

We must have entirely different understandings of the term then. I consider the KISS thing a "pre-chorus." And the Veronica thing a "bridge" or, since it's McCartney, a "middle eight."
seconded.

very different animals...a bridge is almost like a glimpse into a different yet somehow related song that (in many instances) amplifies or reveals new aspects/depths to the song as a whole, not just a change in the set dressing of an existing section.
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Post by percussion boy » Tue May 06, 2008 12:44 am

Tatertot wrote:
What is this ... how do you say ... "key changes"?

The standard routine is to drop to the relative minor (as somebody mentioned) or to modulate up a whole step (as we have discussed)

When I hear either of those two tricks, though, I think "oh, it's the bridge".

I would like to see a list of tricks to use in a bridge.
Another overdone method that works: Start the bridge by hitting the IV chord hard, e.g., "Do Right Woman," "You Don't Know Me," etc..

The jazz and Broadway fellas sometimes used sequences of V to I resolutions to move into/out of/through a bridge. For example, Ellington's "In a Sentimental Mood," which is mostly in the key of Dm/Fmaj, has a bridge that starts in Db (following an Ab7 at the end of the verse), then goes through Bbm, Ebm, Ab back to Db (moving in V-I's), then eventually ends on C7 (to set up the return to Dm/F). The composer will sometimes dress this kind of stuff up by using a major chord where you expect minor, or vice versa (e.g., A7 instead of Am7 in the key of C major).

I will shut up now.

btw, Jimmy Webb's book Tunesmith has a good discussion of all this song structure stuff.
I have academic articles about hooks and they are very useful to browse when I'm stuck halfway through a song/arrangement and I need a push.
Got a link? That would be extremely helpful . . .
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Post by RefD » Tue May 06, 2008 6:07 am

i sometimes just string shit together with a feel similar to the main body of the song and call it a bridge...just so long as it's still interesting to listen to after the ninth go round!

i'm far more conscientious about the lyrical content of a bridge, tho.
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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Tue May 06, 2008 1:13 pm

percussion boy wrote:
I have academic articles about hooks and they are very useful to browse when I'm stuck halfway through a song/arrangement and I need a push.
Got a link? That would be extremely helpful . . .
Why, yes. Here is one: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V9VI2CUF

and here is another: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2WR2VPB6

and they both come with complimentary offers, which you will see on your screen, to meet lovely coeds who live near the mainframe that your internet connection utilizes.

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Post by LeedyGuy » Tue May 06, 2008 2:00 pm

Great Bridge:

American Girl - Tom Petty

Great writer of Bridges:

Glen Phillips from Toad the Wet Sprocket. His bridges are always a serious yet appropriate departure. He rules as a songwriter in that respect.
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Post by percussion boy » Tue May 06, 2008 10:02 pm

Tatertot wrote:Why, yes. Here is one: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V9VI2CUF

and here is another: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2WR2VPB6

and they both come with complimentary offers, which you will see on your screen, to meet lovely coeds who live near the mainframe that your internet connection utilizes.
Thank yew thank yew
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Post by CraigS63 » Sat May 10, 2008 8:12 pm

Another trick that seems to work is to have a 2nd singer do the 'bridge' part:
A Day in the Life,
53rd and 3rd (Ramones)
Comfortably Numb (not sure this is really a 'bridge'?)

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Post by RefD » Sat May 10, 2008 8:46 pm

CraigS63 wrote:Comfortably Numb (not sure this is really a 'bridge'?)
those are the choruses.
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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Thu May 15, 2008 7:18 pm

"If you don't know me by now": great classic song, no bridge, no need for one.

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