ELP's "Lucky Man"

[TapeOpLarry]

If I did a mix like this for a client I get the feeling they would lynch me. Drums are muddy cardboard boxes that seem to pan around occasionally and are drenched in plate reverb. The synth comes in so loaud at the end it drowns everyone out. Greg Lake must have overdubbed everything but the drums for most of the song!

Is it just me or do people seem to play it TOO safe with mixes these days? I call them pussies every time I try something and they say, "Oh no. That's too much effects." or something like that. Probably not the nicest way to handle it but true...

[Marlowe]

Is it just me or do people seem to play it TOO safe with mixes these days?

ABSOLUTELY! I listen to a lot of stuff from the 60s and 70s when radical mixing was more common. Generally, the stuff put out today seems so tame because everything is carefully put in it's place and while there may be some overall impact, there are no surprises or other mixing decisions that stick out as uncommon. Mixers seem so afraid to let things go too far and for me it gets in the way of my being pulled into the music. Even a great band put through the "evenizer" puts me to sleep.

Somehow the supposed asthetic of bold excess doesn't translate into the mix --just the dresscode and maybe deciding to leave some feedback on the record.

You wouldn't think that that keyboard on that ELP tune would be a more ballsy move than what you'll find on the records of all the rebellious, prog-hating punk/alt bands.

[cgarges]

Yes and no. I think a lot of times people use what Mitch Easter calls "the funny noises department" as an excuse for good engineering. In one regard, there's a lot of exciting and ballsy stuff going on (Fridmann, anyone?), but at the same time so many of the recordings done like that are just plain uninteresting to me because it sounds like an engineering project, not a musical representation. I think Tchad Blake is fantastic at this sort of thing. Interesting sounds places against well-recorded sounds (a sweet and sour kind of approach), but few parts ever come in on the downbeat of a phrase and occasionally there are parts that come in WAY too loud and things of that ilk. That's the stuff that I find interesting.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[mrclean]

Interesting topic...How about some of Jon Brion's stuff? He's got some interesting mixes out there.

I have heard and love the "Extraordinary Machine" title track he did with Fiona Apple. Her vocals are really up front.

I also like his work on the "Punch Drunk Love" sound track.

(I'm an old ELP fan too!)

[joeysimms]

I don't think Fridmann, Blake, and Brion/Apple are anywhere near the kind of far-out mixing that Larry is talking about.

[syrupcore]

there's a song called 'you're love is strange' by the dramatics that blows my mind every single time I hear it. the vocal is just distorted. like, distorted at the mic. it's the exact thing most of us are trying to avoid constantly. but it's so perfect and intense that if it wasn't distorted, it would lose so much.

I'm all about the eno bullshit but I think I'm kind of a 'read it on the internet' pussy too. now I've read on the internet that people who dont try shit are pussies so I'm safe to experiment again. thanks larry.


Will

[JGriffin]

The story I hear about that ELP song is that Emerson was trying out the synth for the first time while the engineer was rolling tape and setting levels. So he was just kinda farting around, which is why the solo is so "outside," especially towards the end. When he was finished he turned around and said "okay, let's do a proper one then" and the rest of the band told him no, that was just perfect.

So, y'know, always record the levels pass. You never know.

I'm all for adventurous mixes, On the other hand I think ELP would have benefitted from having entirely different people in the band, recording entirely different songs.

[apropos of nothing]

I'm all for adventurous mixes, On the other hand I think ELP would have benefitted from having entirely different people in the band, recording entirely different songs.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

To my ears, the only good thing about Lucky Man is that solo.

Now what I wish is that Simon&Garfunkel had put that solo on the end of Richard Cory. (Same theme, better implementation.)

[TapeOpLarry]

I'm not an ELP fan but did just download "Lucky Man" to hear the solo last night. What was funny was sitting through all the other crap to get there! And the drums sound so bad to me but kinda cool, like "let's put plate on them so they sound better." Funny stuff.

I wish most S&G songs had one more "outside" element to push them over. Like "Patterns" does with the rhythm stuff.

[radiantbrian]

i personally listen to stuff like ELP or whatever to feel better about my own recordings. it's pretty hilarious to imagine them spending months in a great studio to come up with such shitty results. Tarkus!!

i don't mind freakish engineering as long as there's a reason to do so (it fit's into the theme of the song, the band's obviously trying to push some boundaries, etc), but otherwise it's just an annoying distraction. the stuff from that era that sounds best to me are usually the no-frills records.

[drumsound]

I think Larry is right. Odd mixes (not just adding distortion or kooky FX) don't really exist anymore. There's tons of stuff from the 60-70 that have really odd balances and panning but they are very cool. There isn't the same sense of adventure in mixing.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the "slices of the pie" being smaller that they were in the 60-70s. Music has a lot more things to compete with for the consumers entertainment dollar...

[NewAndImprov]

There was a brief period in the early 70's that ELP were the coolest band in rock. Then they disappeared up their own a$$holes. Seriously, I used to be a huge fan when I was in high school, and, out of nostalgia, borrowed a DVD of various live performances from throughout their career. I was prepared to be totally disappointed, but the first segment was from their very first gig, at one of the huge festivals, maybe Isle of Wight(?), anyway, they played Brubeck's "Blue Rondo" and it was total punk rock all the way! One of the most badass performances I've ever seen, Emerson literally destroys a hammond. It all went quickly downhill, but that gig was beautiful.

And, the "Lucky Man" solo is the reason I have a minimoog today. I remember hearing that tune when it first came out, and wanting to play THAT instrument, whatever it was. It took 25 years, but now I got me a moog...

(And I know that the Analog police will chme in to say that it was done on a modular)

[YOUR KONG]

Yeah, but what about the telephone voice? I mean, that stuff is OUT THERE. I mean, there you are, listening to a kick-ass Korn song, but then you hear the telephone voice and it's like the dude from Korn is calling you up!!

"Hello?"
"Hello. ROCK!! Ps I hate my parents"

No seriously - maybe for once this is a case where the blame can be properly placed on technology. There are so many tools now to make the song perfect. Leaving something as "wrong" because is sounds good to your ears takes a huge amount of chutzpa. Isn't it safer to just tweak it and make it "right"?

Or maybe it's because slightly more people are slightly less enthusiastic about drugs nowadays.

[JGriffin]

Or maybe it's because slightly more people are slightly less enthusiastic about drugs nowadays.

this is a problem why exactly?


and has what to do with adventurous mixes?

[YOUR KONG]

Or maybe it's because slightly more people are slightly less enthusiastic about drugs nowadays.

this is a problem why exactly?
and has what to do with adventurous mixes?

I'm just saying maybe drugs aren't impairing judgement in the studio as much as they used to - so things that are "wrong" are being corrected, rather than sounding "good" in a drug-induced haze.

It was sort of a tongue in cheek comment, anyway. I'm the last person to be saying drugs are the magic ingredient.