Want to have a fun and educational listen?
Check out the "leaked" unreleased Jon Brion produced version of Fiona Apple's
"Extraordinary-Machine" and compare it to the official Mike Elizondo-produced release....
The differences are not subtle...
Brion's version is more in-your-face and quirky, with the vocals front-and center, with lots of Brion-trademark orchestration and "weird" instrumentation...
The Elizondo version is more on the safe side, with softened edges....
Anyway, listening to these recordings certainly brings up the topic of artist/label relations in much the same way that listening to the original "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" does...
Anyway, IMHO, Fiona and Epic shit-canned a classic...
Fiona Apple, Jon Brion, and "Extraordinary Machine"
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tonewoods
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Fiona Apple, Jon Brion, and "Extraordinary Machine"
"You see, the whole thing about recording is the attempt at verisimilitude--not truth, but the appearance of truth."
Jerry Wexler
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matt250321
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I love the released Extraordinary Machine. I think it is a great record, however, I am also a huge Jon Brion fan. Do you know where to get this "leaked" version? I am assuming it is not for sale anywhere... I would just love to hear Brion's arrangements. He is unbelievable.
"We are emotional salesmen" -Shelly Yakus
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Shawn Simmons
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The "leaked" version is far superior to the official release, IMO. They aren't even close. The leaked version is challenging and adventurous. The official release is boring, it's milk toast. It's like the "leaked" version is an amazing gourmet dinner from the best restaurant in town and the official release is the leftovers you eat the next day that don't quite taste the same. It's the same food but it's not. They're the same songs, but they aren't.
why?
why?
Last edited by Shawn Simmons on Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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matt250321
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bentonevolution
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the brion version sounds like a Jon Brion project with vocals by Fiona Apple. The elizondo version sounds like a Fiona Apple project.
The string arrangents in the Brion version are sometimes more front and center than the vocals. I prefer this version. However, maybe Fiona and/or Epic did not like that. This makes the most sense to me.
The string arrangents in the Brion version are sometimes more front and center than the vocals. I prefer this version. However, maybe Fiona and/or Epic did not like that. This makes the most sense to me.
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tonewoods
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Here's a press release about the project:
By RON HARRIS, Associated Press Writer
Mon, Aug 15 2005
SAN FRANCISCO - Fiona Apple is ending her curiously long hiatus from
the business of making music. A year after 11 tracks were leaked onto
the Internet, drawing praise from critics and fans, Epic Records
announced Monday that Apple's "Extraordinary Machine" will be released
Oct. 4.
It's been six years since Apple's last album, "When the Pawn...," was
released in 1999. Since then, the young Grammy-winning singer has been
treated to a deluxe serving of the frustrations of modern music: It
isn't always easy to make a beautiful songs, and creative control is a
nebulous concept at best.
Last year, Apple and the multitalented producer Jon Brion came up with
a wonderfully complex construction of Brion's vision and Apple's voice.
But after months of silence from Apple and Epic parent Sony on a
release date, all 11 songs popped up on the Internet, in high-quality
MP3s, freely available for anyone who couldn't wait another minute. And
there was not an iTunes link to be seen.
The Internet had proved to be the most extraordinary machine of all.
Moreover, the album was very good. Tracks titled "Oh Sailor" and
"Please, Please, Please" ooze the same sullen sultriness that made
Apple's debut album, "Tidal," triple-platinum.
How the album got online is a question that gets fingers pointing in
all directions. What is known is that only Apple, Brion, recording
engineers and the label had access to the songs - and Apple is now
moving forward without Brion.
The album now has 12 songs. One is new, and nine are reworked versions
of leaked tracks.
"Now that my album is finally finished, I am very, very excited to have
people hear what we did. I am so proud of it, and all of us who worked
on it," Apple said in a short statement released Monday.
Through Epic, Apple refused several interview requests from The
Associated Press.
Mike Elizondo is Apple's new producer, a curious departure from Brion,
who has worked with artists such as Aimee Mann and David Byrne.
Elizondo cut his teeth working under superproducer Dr. Dre, and most of
his work has been with rappers such as 50 Cent and Obie Trice.
Brion also wouldn't talk about his involvement with Apple's upcoming
album. But his publicist, Ray Costa, denies Brion leaked the album.
"That's one sore subject with him," Costa said, acknowledging the
persistent rumors. And Brion insists that the version of "Extraordinary
Machine" available online has been tweaked, and does not represent the
music he and Apple created.
"The version that's out there right now has been additionally
manipulated even from what Jon had done before," Costa said. "Whether
the album comes out, Jon's done his part."
Some die-hard Apple fans say what they've already heard was plenty good
enough. Many of them posted links to the MP3s songs on their personal
web pages. Other released the entire album - including some homespun
album cover art - over the Bittorrent file-sharing network.
Nadja Dee Tanaka of Seattle posted all 11 of the "Extraordinary
Machine" MP3s on her Web site. She even went a step further to get
Apple's music out to fans.
"A lot of people, I would burn a disc and send it to them if they would
cover the postage for me," said Tanaka, a 42-year-old film industry
professional. She said the Apple downloads reached about 5,000 per day
at its peak.
Tanaka begrudgingly took the links down after receiving a notice from
the Recording Industry Association of America.
"I was scared. I was angry," Tanaka said.
She might have been a bit confused as well. At the time it was made, no
one would confirm Apple had even made the recordings, much less
delivered them to the label.
If no new Apple material existed, what were downloaders being asked to
stop downloading?
And it remains unclear if the RIAA went after the original album leaker
with the same vigor it went after Tanaka and other Apple fans, like
Lane Collins of San Francisco, who saw the long delay in bringing
"Extraordinary Machine" to stores as an extraordinary pain.
"From a fan perspective, what I see is that they put a lot of money
into having her record this music," said Collins, a 23-year-old
photography student. "I think it's silly to leave it on the shelf, when
they've already invested in it."
For what it's worth, I've heard rumors that Epic is planning on releasing the Brion version as well...
By RON HARRIS, Associated Press Writer
Mon, Aug 15 2005
SAN FRANCISCO - Fiona Apple is ending her curiously long hiatus from
the business of making music. A year after 11 tracks were leaked onto
the Internet, drawing praise from critics and fans, Epic Records
announced Monday that Apple's "Extraordinary Machine" will be released
Oct. 4.
It's been six years since Apple's last album, "When the Pawn...," was
released in 1999. Since then, the young Grammy-winning singer has been
treated to a deluxe serving of the frustrations of modern music: It
isn't always easy to make a beautiful songs, and creative control is a
nebulous concept at best.
Last year, Apple and the multitalented producer Jon Brion came up with
a wonderfully complex construction of Brion's vision and Apple's voice.
But after months of silence from Apple and Epic parent Sony on a
release date, all 11 songs popped up on the Internet, in high-quality
MP3s, freely available for anyone who couldn't wait another minute. And
there was not an iTunes link to be seen.
The Internet had proved to be the most extraordinary machine of all.
Moreover, the album was very good. Tracks titled "Oh Sailor" and
"Please, Please, Please" ooze the same sullen sultriness that made
Apple's debut album, "Tidal," triple-platinum.
How the album got online is a question that gets fingers pointing in
all directions. What is known is that only Apple, Brion, recording
engineers and the label had access to the songs - and Apple is now
moving forward without Brion.
The album now has 12 songs. One is new, and nine are reworked versions
of leaked tracks.
"Now that my album is finally finished, I am very, very excited to have
people hear what we did. I am so proud of it, and all of us who worked
on it," Apple said in a short statement released Monday.
Through Epic, Apple refused several interview requests from The
Associated Press.
Mike Elizondo is Apple's new producer, a curious departure from Brion,
who has worked with artists such as Aimee Mann and David Byrne.
Elizondo cut his teeth working under superproducer Dr. Dre, and most of
his work has been with rappers such as 50 Cent and Obie Trice.
Brion also wouldn't talk about his involvement with Apple's upcoming
album. But his publicist, Ray Costa, denies Brion leaked the album.
"That's one sore subject with him," Costa said, acknowledging the
persistent rumors. And Brion insists that the version of "Extraordinary
Machine" available online has been tweaked, and does not represent the
music he and Apple created.
"The version that's out there right now has been additionally
manipulated even from what Jon had done before," Costa said. "Whether
the album comes out, Jon's done his part."
Some die-hard Apple fans say what they've already heard was plenty good
enough. Many of them posted links to the MP3s songs on their personal
web pages. Other released the entire album - including some homespun
album cover art - over the Bittorrent file-sharing network.
Nadja Dee Tanaka of Seattle posted all 11 of the "Extraordinary
Machine" MP3s on her Web site. She even went a step further to get
Apple's music out to fans.
"A lot of people, I would burn a disc and send it to them if they would
cover the postage for me," said Tanaka, a 42-year-old film industry
professional. She said the Apple downloads reached about 5,000 per day
at its peak.
Tanaka begrudgingly took the links down after receiving a notice from
the Recording Industry Association of America.
"I was scared. I was angry," Tanaka said.
She might have been a bit confused as well. At the time it was made, no
one would confirm Apple had even made the recordings, much less
delivered them to the label.
If no new Apple material existed, what were downloaders being asked to
stop downloading?
And it remains unclear if the RIAA went after the original album leaker
with the same vigor it went after Tanaka and other Apple fans, like
Lane Collins of San Francisco, who saw the long delay in bringing
"Extraordinary Machine" to stores as an extraordinary pain.
"From a fan perspective, what I see is that they put a lot of money
into having her record this music," said Collins, a 23-year-old
photography student. "I think it's silly to leave it on the shelf, when
they've already invested in it."
For what it's worth, I've heard rumors that Epic is planning on releasing the Brion version as well...
"You see, the whole thing about recording is the attempt at verisimilitude--not truth, but the appearance of truth."
Jerry Wexler
Jerry Wexler
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Shawn Simmons
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Then what did "When The Pawn..." sound like to you? Jon Brion had a very prominent role in how that record sounded. And that record sounds amazing. One of my all time favorites.bentonevolution wrote:the brion version sounds like a Jon Brion project with vocals by Fiona Apple. The elizondo version sounds like a Fiona Apple project.
The leaked version of EM may have its flaws (bad mixes, strings too loud, whatever) but at least it's exciting to listen to. I shit my pants the first time I heard it. And it wasn't even finished, those were ROUGH MIXES! The official release sounds like boring, radio-ready, easily digestable pop music. Snore. It's sad, really. For those of you who haven't heard the leaked version, you are truly missing out on something great.
shawn
There is an iTunes Music store interview with Fiona which really shed some light on the issues for me.
Fiona Apple's iTunes Originals
"The stuff that we did was beautiful, but it wasn't what I had had in mind, and I didn't even know what I had in mind, because i hadn't had time to figure that out. But I did know that it didn't have the right exact heartbeat that it should have. Although, and I have to stress this, I do LOVE the other versions of the songs. Its just that you can't be satisfied with something just because its great, it has to be what you intend to do. And then, so for lack of intentions and lack of ability to make decisions, I just thought I have to start again and try them in a different way." - iTunes origional's interview of Fiona Apple.
She makes the point that she hadn't "lived" with the songs for long enough to know what she wanted them to sound like. I think most artists and producers can appreciate that frustration of trying to produce a song without the song in your head to begin with.
That said, the Brion version IS hands down better. Even if the Brion version is a rough mix, it sounds more finished than the Elizondo version.
Fiona had her reasons, and good ones at that, for wanting to redo the album when she understood her own songs, but Brion and Apple have a musical connection that simply isn't there in the Elizondo version.
Fiona Apple's iTunes Originals
"The stuff that we did was beautiful, but it wasn't what I had had in mind, and I didn't even know what I had in mind, because i hadn't had time to figure that out. But I did know that it didn't have the right exact heartbeat that it should have. Although, and I have to stress this, I do LOVE the other versions of the songs. Its just that you can't be satisfied with something just because its great, it has to be what you intend to do. And then, so for lack of intentions and lack of ability to make decisions, I just thought I have to start again and try them in a different way." - iTunes origional's interview of Fiona Apple.
She makes the point that she hadn't "lived" with the songs for long enough to know what she wanted them to sound like. I think most artists and producers can appreciate that frustration of trying to produce a song without the song in your head to begin with.
That said, the Brion version IS hands down better. Even if the Brion version is a rough mix, it sounds more finished than the Elizondo version.
Fiona had her reasons, and good ones at that, for wanting to redo the album when she understood her own songs, but Brion and Apple have a musical connection that simply isn't there in the Elizondo version.
-E Jeff Einowski
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Editor in Chief
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Promoting Community in Music
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bentonevolution
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Shawn1272 wrote:Then what did "When The Pawn..." sound like to you? Jon Brion had a very prominent role in how that record sounded. And that record sounds amazing. One of my all time favorites.bentonevolution wrote:the brion version sounds like a Jon Brion project with vocals by Fiona Apple. The elizondo version sounds like a Fiona Apple project.
The leaked version of EM may have its flaws (bad mixes, strings too loud, whatever) but at least it's exciting to listen to. I shit my pants the first time I heard it. And it wasn't even finished, those were ROUGH MIXES! The official release sounds like boring, radio-ready, easily digestable pop music. Snore. It's sad, really. For those of you who haven't heard the leaked version, you are truly missing out on something great.
shawn
When the Pawn... sounded like a JB project with Fiona on Vocals too. Again, I PREFER THIS. I think Jon is a genius and his work with Fiona has been groundbreaking.
All I was saying was that Fiona and/or the record label were probably ready for a true Fiona Apple album. Again, I wasn't. I thought the Elizondo version sounded watered down and almost soul-less (which is hard on a fiona album).
I don't want to give the impression that I prefer the released version because I don't.
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Shawn Simmons
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Eric Rottmayer
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yeah, the official release was kinda...uh...uh? wha? huh?
especially after hearing those great Jon Brion recorded mixes.
a lot of the stuff on the "actual" relelase was done by Brion as well but
gets lost in the mix...um...etc.
those pre-mix mp3's are still so brilliant...so musical. the actual
release sounds like it could have been made by any of Fiona's cronies.
boo on her for letting her own work get trashed.
if you are bummed, listen to Kanye West's newest album; Jon Brion
played a big role in the recording/mixing of that record.
e
especially after hearing those great Jon Brion recorded mixes.
a lot of the stuff on the "actual" relelase was done by Brion as well but
gets lost in the mix...um...etc.
those pre-mix mp3's are still so brilliant...so musical. the actual
release sounds like it could have been made by any of Fiona's cronies.
boo on her for letting her own work get trashed.
if you are bummed, listen to Kanye West's newest album; Jon Brion
played a big role in the recording/mixing of that record.
e
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tonewoods
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"if you are bummed, listen to Kanye West's newest album; Jon Brion
played a big role in the recording/mixing of that record."
Which really adds to the mystery...
First, because I challenge anyone to listen to that recording and tell me...
"Oh yeah, that's a Kanye West recording that sounds like a Jon Brion project"...
And secondly...
Jon Brion is hot right now...
Hell, I'm thinking that decision not to go with the Brion mixes cost her a Grammy...
(Not that I give a shit)....
played a big role in the recording/mixing of that record."
Which really adds to the mystery...
First, because I challenge anyone to listen to that recording and tell me...
"Oh yeah, that's a Kanye West recording that sounds like a Jon Brion project"...
And secondly...
Jon Brion is hot right now...
Hell, I'm thinking that decision not to go with the Brion mixes cost her a Grammy...
(Not that I give a shit)....
"You see, the whole thing about recording is the attempt at verisimilitude--not truth, but the appearance of truth."
Jerry Wexler
Jerry Wexler
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Eric Rottmayer
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actually, there are alot strange keyboard sounds on that record (the Kanye one)tonewoods wrote:[
First, because I challenge anyone to listen to that recording and tell me...
"Oh yeah, that's a Kanye West recording that sounds like a Jon Brion project"...
And secondly...
Jon Brion is hot right now...
Hell, I'm thinking that decision not to go with the Brion mixes cost her a Grammy...
(Not that I give a shit)....
that i hear and say, oh yeah, that's JB, right there... but sure, a RAP
record is much different than a POP record and i think most ordinary radio
listeners will discern that. BUT i do think that it's extrordinary (and still talking
about Kanye's album here!) that Jon Brion is NOT more obvious in the
songs. i find that to be refreshing if nothing else. i also have the utmost respect
for the man...he could produce Michael Jackson's new album and i would not
be suprised nor upset. i probably wouldn't buy it either, but i might download
it.
as far as Fiona not going with the JB mixes; let me just say this:
i think Elliott Smith would still be alive today if he'd gone with the JB mixes/
recordings from his last album. maybe that's out of the ballpark. but i don't
think it is.
e
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