Okay, I've vacillated over this one long enough

[workshed]

So I've been working on this song for entirely too long now... like months. And now it's gone from a simple, 3 1/2 minute instrumental to an epic, 8-minute songish sort of thing with vocals.

Anyhow, I'm looking for any feedback anyone can give because my sense of reality and perception is far too skewed on this for me to make any kind of realistic call whatsoever.

I have plenty of my own prejudices and issues with it all, but am wanting some untainted opinions.

The song is here.

Thanks in advance.

-Bret

[syrupcore]

dude! Can I come to your house to record guitars? wtff?

[workshed]

dude! Can I come to your house to record guitars? wtff?

Hahaha, any time! For what it's worth, I think most of the guitars were recorded direct through my Presonus MP20, then I used Logic's built-in guitar amp plugin to add a little bite, which really does some surprisingly good sounds if you keep the gain low. Most of the guitar tracks used my Tele, but on the breakdown part I used my les paul gold top copy with P90s. This song has way too many guitar tracks for its own good.

[zoetrope]

I like the slow opening, something many people shy away from these days. That said, it needs more variety in the intro before it hits the one minute mark. Change up the arpeggio perhaps. When the vocal comes in it's too quiet and the arpeggio too loud. Sort of a Rain Parade sound to this.

To get to your question, I think long is good as long as you have some breaks and up the ante from time to time to keep it alive. Here, the arpeggio gets so repetative and is so loud in the mix it's hard to evaluate the rest of what I hear. I'd love to hear a remix with that guitar buried so I can hear everything else.

I hope that helps.

[evhelm]

the drums, specifically the snare, sound/ feel unatural to me. I don't know if it's the bouncing stick (sample?) or just the timing of it.

[syrupcore]

...I think most of the guitars were recorded direct through my Presonus MP20, then I used Logic's built-in guitar amp plugin to add a little bite...

damn. maybe I mean 'can I come to your house for some guitar lessons'?

[workshed]

I like the slow opening, something many people shy away from these days. That said, it needs more variety in the intro before it hits the one minute mark. Change up the arpeggio perhaps. When the vocal comes in it's too quiet and
the arpeggio too loud. Sort of a Rain Parade sound to this.

Thanks -- that's a good idea and I am still pretty unsure about the opening vocal treatment. I'll play around with that portion.

To get to your question, I think long is good as long as you have some breaks and up the ante from time to time to keep it alive. Here, the arpeggio gets so repetative and is so loud in the mix it's hard to evaluate the rest of what I hear. I'd love to hear a remix with that guitar buried so I can hear everything else.

I hope that helps.

Definitely, that is great feedback and the kind of stuff I need to hear. Sometimes it sucks creating music in vacuum (no pun intended). I think part of the problem is the nature of recording to sequenced drums in that it takes away from the dynamics and live feel of the song. I need to get my drums home so I can track some live drums to it.

Thanks again!

-Bret

[workshed]

the drums, specifically the snare, sound/ feel unatural to me. I don't know if it's the bouncing stick (sample?) or just the timing of it.

You called it -- the drums are all sequenced using doggiebox. In some ways i like that effect, but it others it gets to be pretty dull/distracting. I originally intended to use it as a scratch drum track until I could get my acoustic kit home and track some real drums to it, which I still want to do.

Thanks for the comments!

-Bret

[workshed]

...I think most of the guitars were recorded direct through my Presonus MP20, then I used Logic's built-in guitar amp plugin to add a little bite...

damn. maybe I mean 'can I come to your house for some guitar lessons'?

Aha! Of course man, although I have no idea what I'm doing. I just hit strings with one hand and move my other hand around until it sounds cool (to me).

-Bret

[veedub242]

Guitars sound awesome...
Not a big fan of the drums..I would try to find a drummer to play on it.
Vocals remind me of the psychedelic furs a bit..(which I love)
Like all the layers I am a big fan of the wall of sound MBV thing..

My opinion is it deserves new drums otherwise I like it!

Nice work- Ian

[JWL]

Good job. This has good potential.

I agree with the comments about drums... they are bit too safe sounding, as is the bass track.

I think the vocals and the guitars are fighting a bit too much. You have the guitar tracks panned harder left and right, leaving room in the middle for the vocals, which helps, but I think the guitars are a bit too loud compared to the rest of the mix. I can't really make out many of the lyrics at all, which for a song like this is a problem. Back the guitars off a hair, bring the vocals up a bit, maybe try some complimentary EQ between the two. As it is, they are fighting a bit too much I think.

I also think the song is too long. Maybe rearrange it a bit, cut some of the instrumental breaks out. Though I was surprised as it doesn't feel like a 7 minute song, which is probably a good thing.

But if the lyrics were more intelligible, it might draw the listener in enough to justify the nearly 8 minute length.

Tons of potential though... I can make out "wake up", "get up" and "I'm here now" in the lyrics, which makes me wonder what the song is about....

Anyway, put it down for a few days, maybe a week, then come back to it with fresh ears and a fresh perspective, and a few nips and tucks....

[syrupcore]

further listening...

I listened to this on repeat a few times at work today. I dig it. I love the intro too. I like the crazy buried vocals at the start and wouldn't change it at all. I really like the little scratch loop thingy. I'm not sure I'm calling it what it is. the bit that sounds like like one of those ridged hollow things...

I wouldn't mind some more bass, particularly in the middle section. Seems like it's lower when the second verse comes in and never really goes back up. is it? Real drums would also be swell but I think the drum machine sounds pretty good. Maybe two different cymbal samples? Like a drummer with two different crashes? mostly because samples really miss the already ringing cymbal hit thing.

I wouldn't fuck with this much man. It sounds really good. I really like the ambiance. It's one of those fine line things that I'm always going too far on and I think you've pretty much nailed.

Will

[workshed]

Guitars sound awesome...
Not a big fan of the drums..I would try to find a drummer to play on it.
Vocals remind me of the psychedelic furs a bit..(which I love)
Like all the layers I am a big fan of the wall of sound MBV thing..

My opinion is it deserves new drums otherwise I like it!

Nice work- Ian

Thanks Ian. I think you got what I was going for sound-wise with the MBV reference. Not that I can ever be kevin Shields, but I wanted that Cure/MBV/Wall of sound thing. And funny you mention the Psych furs, as one of my good friends said the same thing. I wasn't trying for that, but my singing voice is pretty inflexible.

Thanks for the kind words!

[workshed]

Good job. This has good potential.

...snip...

Anyway, put it down for a few days, maybe a week, then come back to it with fresh ears and a fresh perspective, and a few nips and tucks....

Thanks for all of the insight, totally appreciated. I agree and it seems like the general consensus above all, is re-do the drums with a real drummer on a real kit.

I will also investigate the vocal/guitar levels and eq stuff. I appreciate you pointing that out!

-Bret

[workshed]

further listening...

I listened to this on repeat a few times at work today. I dig it. I love the intro too. I like the crazy buried vocals at the start and wouldn't change it at all. I really like the little scratch loop thingy. I'm not sure I'm calling it what it is. the bit that sounds like like one of those ridged hollow things...

I wouldn't mind some more bass, particularly in the middle section. Seems like it's lower when the second verse comes in and never really goes back up. is it? Real drums would also be swell but I think the drum machine sounds pretty good. Maybe two different cymbal samples? Like a drummer with two different crashes? mostly because samples really miss the already ringing cymbal hit thing.

I wouldn't fuck with this much man. It sounds really good. I really like the ambiance. It's one of those fine line things that I'm always going too far on and I think you've pretty much nailed.

Will

Thanks again, Will. I think I'm going to try the drums on a real kit at some point, and probably re-track the bass. I just put that bass part in quickly and moved on other stuff, but now that I've heard the song so much, I think I need to be more creative with the bass parts. As for the scratchy thing, it's actually a short drum loop from Garageband, but I'm running it through a compressor and distortion plugin.

-Bret