John Lennon Remix & Remaster

[Sleepy_poet]

So they remixed John Lennon's albums in digital, and digitally remastered them.

From what I understand, if you take analog and transfer it to digital, you lose half of what's there (or at least alot of it). I was thinking that they'd better use some serious ass firepower for the A/D conversion, Digital Mixing, and Digital Mastering. I mean, It's John Lennon!

Now, I am all about making music sounding better through technology. Alas, I can't understand why they didn't just remix John Lennon's albums on a SSL console or a Neve 88R, and just digitally remaster it. Why did they [i]have[/i] to remix it on digital? I just don't feel that it is being true to the source.

That being said, how does everyone feel about teh newly remixed and remastered John lennon albums? Good, not good? Sound better, sound worse?
Do you feel that it added to the effect of his music, or took anythign away?

I have all John Lennon's original releases on CD, and was considering purchasing all of the remix/remasters.

[mikehattem]

ANY remixing is not being true to the source... I'm not a big fan of all these REMXES. I like to hear the records the way they sounded when they were made not a new mix by some guy who wasn't in the studio. Remastering I understand since alot of the early issues on CD of alotr of stuff left much to be desired but remix??

"lose half of what's there"????

Mike

[Sleepy_poet]

"Lose half of what's there" meaning the signal that was originally put onto magnetic tape. I was referring to the generation loss that takes place when transfering to digital from an analog source. Sound quality gets lost when transfering analog to digital. (Though you may already know that, I thought I would clear up what I meant).

I am hoping that Yoko Ono had alot ot do with the remixes/masters, and the decisions being made. That would make me feel a little better, being that she was the closest thing you can get to John himself.

I just want to know what everyone thinks about the actual sound of it all.

I do agree though, if some guy was just like "How about remixing John Lennon's albums? I got extra time". That would be like a sin. However, if it was done by someone that actually had somethign to do with the album in the first place, that would be more acceptable. Ya know?

Like the Led Zeppelin remasters, I actually feel comfortable listening to because Jimmy page produced them, and he sat in on the remastering sessions and had almost everythign to do with the remastering of those albums. Allthough he DIDN'T remix them. haha. The John lennon albums are totally remixed.

[Jeff White]

I am hoping that Yoko Ono had alot ot do with the remixes/masters, and the decisions being made. That would make me feel a little better, being that she was the closest thing you can get to John himself.

Shelly Yakus, who worked with John as the recording engineer (not sure about mixing) on 3 or 4 of John's records should have at least been called up as a consultant. Although that was 30+ yrs ago.

[JGriffin]

So they remixed John Lennon's albums in digital, and digitally remastered them.

From what I understand, if you take analog and transfer it to digital, you lose half of what's there (or at least alot of it). I was thinking that they'd better use some serious ass firepower for the A/D conversion, Digital Mixing, and Digital Mastering. I mean, It's John Lennon!

Now, I am all about making music sounding better through technology. Alas, I can't understand why they didn't just remix John Lennon's albums on a SSL console or a Neve 88R, and just digitally remaster it. Why did they have to remix it on digital? I just don't feel that it is being true to the source.

That being said, how does everyone feel about teh newly remixed and remastered John lennon albums? Good, not good? Sound better, sound worse?
Do you feel that it added to the effect of his music, or took anythign away?

I have all John Lennon's original releases on CD, and was considering purchasing all of the remix/remasters.

I think more information is required before leaping to conclusions about this project.

[fortune 500 company]

a few months back I bought the Imagine and Plastic Ono Band albums, both of which I had only known on vinyl before that. I put in Imagine and was absolutely horrified! Clearer, more defined, more 'focused' sounding, yes. But just sort of drained of all its life or something... Not at all what I was expecting or wanting to hear. I actually sold it back the next day as a used CD.

But since then I've bought it again and I listen to it. I realized that this isn't a record I really listen to 'for the production' so to speak (although I do love the production). The performance, the songs, etc are all as amazing as they ever were. I'm not even so sure that if I had never heard the vinyl versions before I would even be so bothered by the sound.

Interestingly I didn't have nearly the same reaction to POB, maybe because I knew what to expect from listening to Imagine? To me the change is not nearly so drastic, though it's kind of hard to compare since the production is so different on each of those records.

Overall, I would say they do sound unquestionably VERY different (and to me, not as good). But CDs are so much more convenient to listen to, and those records are just so good it's hard for me not to enjoy them no matter how they sound.

[Sleepy_poet]

Yoko co-produced alot of John Lennon's solo stuff.
Yoko, being John Lennon's wife, knew John better than anyone. I'd hope that she was consulted in making decisions about who to get for the project, and how to go about it.
Yoko was present during the making of most of those albums, and she knew what John Lennon had in his mind when he was recording the songs.

The only thing I know about the remixing and remastering of the albums is what it says on the album cover "Digitally Remixed and Mastered". I'd liek to find out what went on though.

So in term of the actual sound, no one else has any thoughts? I havn't givin them a detailed listen yet, so I can't say too much.

[Roman Sokal]

yoko ono indeed supervised the remixing of the albums. it also says remastered though that's sort of irrelevant to say since it was remixed. anyhow, the first album (my fave) sounds great, and they couldn't tinker with it much anyway since the heaviness and f/x were pretty much printed to tape. however, ono wanted to 'update' and modernize the Imagine album, thus, taking out the Phil Spector sounds/touch/style. I'm against that.

[Sleepy_poet]

Imagine is "de-spectorized"? Aww man. That does suck.

[coniferouspine]

I don't have any details or evidence to back what I say, but I am pretty darn sure that there is something very heavy going on (behind the scenes) with the "de-Spectorization" of the Lennon solo albums that is not just musical. Like, I think maybe Spector might get points and royalties on the old original ones, also Allen Klein maybe, and then if it's a new Imagine "piece" in 2006 with a new catalog number, then presto, ol' man Spector doesn't get any points or revenues on the sales of the Imagine album anymore, or something like that, that's my first guess. Second guess being, they are trying to get Spector's name disassociated from Lennon's, because Spector has obviously been in headlines and jail lately for some pretty serious bad stuff, and maybe they want to distance Lennon's legend from him. Thirdly, Yoko does not like Spector because he was the one around John during the "Lost Weekend" and my guess is he probably told Spector a lot during those drunken nights, and I bet Spector knows a lot of dirt and a lot of where the skeletons are buried and stuff nobody else knows about Lennon, Yoko and even what went down with the Beatles. Or something. I definitely don't think it has 100% to do with music, actually.

[runrunrun]

when did these remixes take place? is this on all cd versions of imagine? i never noticed before on an older copy i have. im assuming its new in the last few years?

[Roman Sokal]

yeah, they were remixed quite some time ago actually. the first one was done around 1999, and i imagine (no pun intended!) that the rest were done shortly thereafter, like 2000/2001. i have the first one as one of those mobile fidelty resissues, when the company got started up again. sounds great, especially the sectional edit which was fixed/more fluid sounding eq-wise for the track 'working class hero'.

coniferousspine- good message/reply. your guess is quite plausible sounding, especially the bit about the new catalog # and such. doesn't surprise me. you're likely quite right about it all. seems like there is a lot of that dissassociating with spector going on- like with the beatles' let it be reissue and all...

[Sleepy_poet]

Wow, I had no idea about the Spector dirt. What kind of stuff was he into?
Wait a minute, wasn't Phil Spector hailed by everyone in the 60's? If my memory is correct, I think Brian Wilson was really into Phil Spectors sound and stuff. It's a shame that he put himself in the position to be "De-spectorized" from anyone.
And I thought it was Yoko's sister or assistant that was with him on the "Long weekend"?

[MoonPool]

That would be May Pang, Yoko's assistant, who became John's girlfriend during the Lost Weekend and later.

My problem with the remixes is not with the added clarity, but the laoss of the artistic vision of the original artist. For example, on Plastic Ono Band, the song " As Lennon lists the litany of things he doesn't believe in, listen to the "God" echo and reverb on his voice and how it builds to a crescendo as the music does. Then, when he sings,"I just believe in me"his voice is comletely dry. The effect is quite moving - you feel the intimacy of those lines compared to the rest of the song due to the harsh, sudden change in ambience. Or, at least, you did on the original mix. The new mix has the ame level of delay and reverb all the way through. The mixes are a bit more heavy handed in their use of slap back throughout the entire Imagine CD. The LP and original CD are more restrained.

Yes, Yoko was there. Yes, she's John's widow. However, she's also an artist and one would hope she would have respect for another artist's vision. Maybe one night John said he hated all his recordings and wanted to remix them all and she felt fine doing it. I certainly wasn't there. But, if anyone is going to remix something annd release it, it seems to me that replacing the original with a redone version - particularly when the artist is no longer around - it would be best to keep the original mixes available - so remaster the originals and put that out and remix and remaster and put that out.

It reminds of how Alan Douglas remixed and redesigned Hendrix's LPs for new fans in the late 80s and had all the official versions pulled and replaced with his vision.

[honkyjonk]

I'm a flaming fucking purist when it comes to these things.

It's so outrageous to fuck with those albums like that. It's like going back and rewriting Tolstoy. The final package that first existed in the public knowledge has to be available as it was or at least as true as possible to the original.

I guess if somebody wants to go to all the effort to betterize them and de Spectorize them, then there's certainly a bunch of fools who will buy them and go "oohy"

But there should also be concurrently available direct from 2 track master copies for the rest of us. They could even surround it in a bunch of "sounds like a record" and "vintage" "warmer" rhetoric.

I guess it's a combination of there not being enough people who are making decisions about these things that care about the original article, and the impression that there is no money to be made in non-betterized re-issues.

I'll tell all you betterizers out there something. I'd rather buy a late eighties/early 90's cd that is more true to the original article, despite older digital transfer technology, any day.

Hopefully when Yoko and Paul McCartney and all the rest of these fucks that want to ruin the original masterpieces because they're can't hear anything above 13K all die, there will be a movement towards a more as-close-as-possible-to-the-original-realease aesthetic. Re-issuing vinyl would be good, and I know they already do that in some instances, but there should also be a non-botique catoring digital version that fucking rocks.