Newbie Mix

Discussion on new albums, developing listening skills, critical listening to others' work, as well as TOMB members' MP3 links, online recording critiques

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???????
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Post by ??????? » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:22 pm

It's funny, it sounds like I'm listening to NS10s! :D

Have you used a bunch of additive EQ above 1k or so, like maybe on any of the guitars? It sounds a little crispy up there. If so, I wonder what it would sound like if that were scaled back a little bit?

I'm hearing a (dare I say) "harsh" flavor a little bit that was probably disguised a bit on the NS10s since they are pretty harsh sounding anyway.

Some of the guitars seem to have a lot of those frequencies that iPod headphones reproduce well... know what I'm sayin?

But I think overall, as the previous poster said, this is a bit stronger than the last effort. I do wish that the bass drum was 'revealed' a bit more especially in the denser sections.

The last one seemed a little boomy in the low-end and this one has a fatiguing-to-listen-to-thing in the top end... maybe if there was a way to split the difference the third time would be a charm?

I only give my opinions because you asked :D Keep up the good work. For the record, I'm listening on KRK V6 Series II monitors.

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joelmoore
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Post by joelmoore » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:23 pm

*Listening on Dell computer speakers with no sub no eq.*

Critique:
Bass is buried/muffled
Toms and kick are buried especially the bop bop bop bop toms for the punch part
delayed left guitar too low-I loved that guitar above all else in your last mix
the new power strum electric guitar on right/middle too loud
acoustic seems thin and low/could be fatter and/or louder during pre-power strum part
i prefer the main melody on the right instead of left but it sounds great nonetheless
right lead at 3/4 of the way in is much too loud and the drums and bass should come up and/or be more clear
everything seems a bit on the trebile side for my taste
the constant left electric guitar strum seems like it should be different in tone than the lead that comes after
sometimes the string squeeks on the acoustic feel distracting but really only because everything seems too trebily to me already (listening on computer speakers)
I wish there was more variation is the type of guitar sound - maybe a different type of guitar playing some of the rhythm parts


Praise:
Awesome drum performance
rhythm is tight as a drum pun intended
reverse guitar at ending is a very nice touch
very nice how the beginning guitar lead pans to the left side to introduce the ghost guitar sonic part
love the ambient middle
top notch performances
it just feels good
Overall I like it

Any plans for language? Vocal?

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Post by zesbez » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:51 pm

Wow. I never expected such valuable feedback... thank you all for critically listening and posting your feedback. I'm actually laying down vocals Monday and I'm in the process of adding some keys parts. I'm gonna post the next mix soon and I'll take all the feedback into consideration.

Joel... your attention to detail was especially appreciated.

~ eric

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Post by rollmottle » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:30 pm

you'll probably want to wait to get too stoked on a mix without vocals if vocals are still going to be added. will be much tougher to mix vocals in if you're trying to make them fit in a mix you're more hesitant to mess with versus starting a mix from scratch accounting for probably the key element in the whole song - the vocals.

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Post by zesbez » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:10 am

Well, the only reason I spent so much mixing something without vocals was practice. I totally remixed the song went I switched monitors and am open to remixing again once I finish the tracking. Thanks for the feedback but I'm at a very explorative (sp?) stage right now so I don't mind starting over.

~ eric

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Post by zesbez » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:19 pm

Well, made friends with a much more experienced mixer who recently moved near me. He helped me remix the track with the added vocal and what not. I like his take on it but it's definately a lot less raw than the original. Wanted to post it for feedback. It's currently getting mastered by a friend of his.

http://10tornado.com/eric/possible_mix1 ... _nolim.wav

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dokushoka
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Post by dokushoka » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:15 am

zesbez wrote:Well, made friends with a much more experienced mixer who recently moved near me. He helped me remix the track with the added vocal and what not. I like his take on it but it's definately a lot less raw than the original. Wanted to post it for feedback. It's currently getting mastered by a friend of his.

http://10tornado.com/eric/possible_mix1 ... _nolim.wav
The snare and vocal reverbs are pretty ridiculous on this version. The hi hat is also pretty unruly.

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Post by zesbez » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:04 am

Fair feedback... I'm a fan of dryer vocals and drums myself. Any improvements?

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dokushoka
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Post by dokushoka » Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:12 pm

zesbez wrote:Fair feedback... I'm a fan of dryer vocals and drums myself. Any improvements?
Well the immediate impression the mix gives is a poor one as the snare sounds out of phase. It lacks body and it sounds like the mixer tried to make it up by putting this crazy dense/long hall on it. Its just too much and it isn't tying the snare into the rest of the kit/mix at all. I mean, you can't really fix this without getting a quality reverb. Nothing exposes a bad reverb faster than snare/vocal tracks.

At the very least, I'd set it up with a MUCH shorter decay and less predelay. This kind of track can get away with a sub .8 second reverb on the snare easily. Getting the snare to be in phase would be the first priority here.

The kick is gone on small speakers, too. A mult of it to get some "knock" from it can solve that.

The verb on the guitars is cool but VERY wet and the guitar is only panned left. A smart trick is to mult it with an 18ms delay to make it stereo and pan them somewhat opposite with slighty (or dramatically) different reverbs and delays. This will make the guitar sound huge.

The vocal could use a compressor with some character. I'm on small speakers so I can't comment much on the tone.

It sounds like it doesn't have a good delay/predelay on it which is hurting it tremendously. Before I even THINK about throwing a long verb on a vocal, I run it through a dedicated predelay to prep the vocal for the reverb. I prefer lexicon delays for this (don't ask me which ones). I will also process a vocal many ways after a chain compressors and eqs it might look something like this:

One send feeding two lexicon delays with different delay times, split L+R feeding a stereo reverb or two different mono reverbs for the left and right. This is usually my "long" or "bloom" reverb for the vocal. It can often have a chorus/flange/symphonic effect sitting between the delays and the verb.

Another send that goes to my general "glue" reverb. More often than not, this is a small "studio ambience" type room sound that most everything in the mix gets a touch of to pull the parts together.

Another send feeding a H3000D/SE on the Micropitchshift setting or the Dual 910 patch. This is typically automated heavily, coming up tons in the chorus. The Eventide often gets de-essed or even fed into my "short" reverb in the mix or a subtle chorus effect.

In the end, all of these effects are heavily automated to make the vocal change dynamically as needed.

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joeysimms
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Post by joeysimms » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:36 pm

That's some great advice dokushoka.
beware bee wear

zesbez
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Post by zesbez » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:23 pm

That is great advice my friend... thank you. I'm going to continue to hone my mixing chops and find my place in this crazy world. I'm saving that reply for future reference.

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Post by Artifex » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:18 pm

Must be my speakers or I'm just crazy, but I think the first mix is the best out of these three.

zesbez
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Post by zesbez » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:42 am

That's funny actually because I kind of agree with you... wondering if the HS-50s were the right monitors for me to begin with.

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