What's the deal with Metallica's ...And Justice for All??

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Professor T
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Post by Professor T » Mon May 19, 2008 2:21 pm

I loved the kick drum sound when I was a junior high kid. It was hands down the coolest thing I'd ever heard.

Except for the Recognizers in Tron. Those sounded pretty cool too.


However, I listened to the Black album the other day and it was kinda laughable how cliche everything sounded.

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Post by klangtone » Mon May 19, 2008 11:33 pm

Tatertot wrote: I can't listen to Justice for All because it sounds like ass. Maybe it sounded better when it was released on cassette, which was really the intended delivery system at the time it was recorded anyway.
I have it on cassette. It sounds bad.

Did anyone see them live during this time period?
Jason must have been playing something up there...

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Post by RoyMatthews » Tue May 20, 2008 5:23 am

klangtone wrote:
Tatertot wrote: I can't listen to Justice for All because it sounds like ass. Maybe it sounded better when it was released on cassette, which was really the intended delivery system at the time it was recorded anyway.
I have it on cassette. It sounds bad.

Did anyone see them live during this time period?
Jason must have been playing something up there...

Roy
I think the other part of the 'hazing' was making Jason play exactly what the rhythm gtrs are playing and not letting him come up with parts. That probably masks it a fair amount.
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Post by drfringe » Wed May 21, 2008 11:11 am

funny you should all ask: there's a thread here http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... llica.html

where Flemming actually chimes in and talks in depth about the recording of lightning MOP and Justice. Seems like a cool guy. I think it was all reel to reel analog, with 12 guitar tracks bounced down to 2 l & r.

I liked the sound, it seemed futuristic at the time, and appropriate for lofi beat boxes and old stereos. On hi fi it seems like a bulk of the sound was really maxed out guitars with some drums and doubled vocals on top. I think you had to be really stoned top appreciate the weirdness... but that's my take. I've seen this album discussed on many forums. Ah well it is what it is.

Anyway- Flemming discusses the mics, vocals, kick drum, equipment, etc over on that thread. Enjoy. He starts chiming in on page 3.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed May 21, 2008 11:38 am

this record sounds like cocaine.

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Post by Snarky » Fri May 30, 2008 4:33 pm

haha dudes you are funny.

There is no bass guitar, the guitars are overtracked to the point where a palm mute blows up ur sweet car woofers in your "hate tank", and I thought it sounded way better on cassette than CD. I mowed many lawns to this album. I like the lyrics and the jammin solos the best.
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Re: What's the deal with Metallica's ...And Justice for All?

Post by Blort » Fri May 30, 2008 8:07 pm

Snarky wrote: I mowed many lawns to this album.
This image made me laugh. I'm picturing a scrawny 14-year-old in a grass-stained tank top, pushing a mower and making the Lars Ulrich scowl-face.

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justice

Post by Zoltar » Sat May 31, 2008 3:14 pm

I remember reading that the bass drum sound was the only thing they wanted to take to the black album

I sort of thought AJFA was an 'end of an era' kind of album, and they wanted a different sound for the 90's, trying to beat Seattle to the new sound. Marshalls instead of Mesa Boogies. Pot instead of Coke, if you will.

I always thought AJFA was a nice ending to the 80's, like the way The Soft Bulletin and In the Airplane over the Sea ended the 90's.

Interesting about the lack of bass though. I wonder if they knew their audience was listening on cranked ceadphones, or if James and Lars were that unwilling to give up the sonic range.

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Post by Professor » Sat May 31, 2008 7:21 pm

I have the Classic Albums 'Making of the Black Album' DVD and in fact just watched the first ten minutes or so a couple days ago when someone asked about it in the studio. We watched a bit and then I let him borrow it for a couple of days. Either way, right there at the beginning of the video Lars & James are talking about the lead up to the black album, and they say laugh while saying, 'you could really tell who mixed that album because there's nothing but guitars & drums'. And that's not from a period interview, it's from the Classic Albums filming in 2002 or '03 when they pulled the band into the studio to talk, play, and film.
So regardless of why they mixed it that way, they are aware that it was mixed that way.
And if you find that lots of engineers dislike the mix on the album, that could be a pretty obvious reason why.

I've not done much audiophile listening to the Metallica catalog. I've heard enough of it in passing, and I own the Black Album (actually on CD & the DVDA surround remix), because that was the one that caught me at the right time. So I can't really say that I have any particular opinion of the AJFA album. I do know that it was their 4th album, and that it didn't sell well, and that it's kind of a wonder that album #5 ended up being one of the top 30 biggest selling albums ever in the USA except that it speaks to having the right work of art at the right time for the culture.

And if any of you haven't checked out these Classic Album Series videos from Eagle Rock, you really, really need to. I have about 8 or 9 of them so far and pick up a new one every now and then when I come across them in the record/video store. They are like engineer's-crack, especially the Metallica, Pink Floyd (Dark Side) and Queen (Night at the Opera) discs. They aren't just concert DVDs, or band interviews, or biographies, rather they are song-by-song break downs of the making of one ground-breaking album. They pull up original multitrack tapes and start soloing tracks, they have the band members play the parts from the various songs, they explain how certain effects were pulled off, and more. Really, really, fantastic stuff.

-Jeremy

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:17 pm

Professor wrote:it didn't sell well
???

dude there was no escaping that record in 1988.

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Post by Professor » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:40 pm

My mistake, maybe I was thinking of another one - or that's just how it sounded from the video.
RIAA says AJFA certified platinum in '88, double in '89 and triple in '92 (although that would be after the black album release in '91 which was at 4x platinum by April '92).

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remix!

Post by Zoltar » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:05 am

I was just listening in the car, inspired by this forum. They should remix this thing with some bass guitar. I probably wouldn't buy it, but if they offered it as a free downlo-hahahahah right!

I forgot how great the tight mic'd palm muted thirds of the scooped Mark IV's sounded. between this album and Anthrax State of Euphoria, I still love that sound.

One of my favourite part of the album is the double bass bridge part right before the last verse of '...and justice for all', the guitar sound in particular. I think it is about 7:50 in the song, I could be wrong.

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Re: remix!

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:29 pm

Zoltar wrote:I forgot how great the tight mic'd palm muted thirds of the scooped Mark IV's sounded. between this album and Anthrax State of Euphoria, I still love that sound.
yeah me too. i like the sound of whole chords palm muted, and i feel like not very many people explored the possibilities of that approach.

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lyman
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Re: remix!

Post by lyman » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:57 pm

Zoltar wrote: I forgot how great the tight mic'd palm muted thirds of the scooped Mark IV's sounded. between this album and Anthrax State of Euphoria, I still love that sound.
sure, the mark iv is great but that's not what it is. james used a mark ii c+ on that album as on other early metallica albums. the mark iv wasn't even released until 1989, and "justice" was recorded in early 1988.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:27 pm

geek check!

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