Why does everyone hate Steely Dan?

[vvv]

It's slick, and cheesy, and depraved.

Something we might all aspire to.; I got 2 outta 3 and I ain't slick.

Like, for example, double-posting ...

[JGriffin]

You know, I used to "not get" Morissey. Then Mrs. SA80 made me listen to what Moz was actually singing about. Same deal.

I can see that.

[Seamonster]

One point that maybe hasn?t been mentioned yet... For a long time SD had the reputation as being the one ?band? on the radio that never played out or toured, so were perceived by many as fake. (That they were into studio perfection/sterility fed into that.) I haven?t heard that diss lately; maybe because they?ve done some live playing in recent years. Or maybe because these days ?live playability? has become less of a requirement for pop music.

Another reason they were/are considered ?pretentious? is that often the lyrics seem too purposefully oblique, like they were written in code. (Something similar may be part of why Yes was/is considered pretentious.) Like a series of cynical in-jokes.

As a 48 year-old, I experienced SD as just a part of the wallpaper of life. Covered ?Reelin? in the Years? in a high school party band (as pop as I ever got). I was never a fan but always intrigued, until Aja, which just seemed too slick (Steve Gadd?s playing was impressive but over-the-top). The biggest negative for me was always Fagen?s vocal quality; I?m not sure if it was the timbre (croaky) or something that seemed less than genuine about it. More the latter, as I think back. (Meanwhile, McDonald?s vox have always been unequivocably ?nails-on-chalkboard? to me.)

If I had to pick a best album (not that my memory is encyclopedic) I?d say Katy Lied. By then they had honed their craft but were maybe still a little hungry, not quite so pretentious as they?d later become. I still like the Phil Woods alto on Doctor Wu, which he supposedly nailed on the first run-through.

With all the Weather-Channel fuzak that has since transpired, I imagine it would be impossible for kids these days to appreciate how some aspects of SD seemed original back then.

Damn, I still work with 20-somethings, but must sound like a real Fogue.

Hoagie "Hogue" Hill

[Jay Reynolds]

Another reason they were/are considered ?pretentious? is that often the lyrics seem too purposefully oblique, like they were written in code. (Something similar may be part of why Yes was/is considered pretentious.) Like a series of cynical in-jokes.

I light of the above post, I'd like to present the 1st half of the 2nd verse to Pavement's "Transport Is Arranged":
Praise the grammar police
Set me up with your niece
Walk to Baltimore
And keep the language off the streets


I went to school with oblique, and Steely Dan, sir, isn't oblique.

[Seamonster]

Nice. I should clarify that I personally don't find SD's lyrics too oblique -- I loves me sum literary junk and stuff -- but that seems to be part of the standard rap against SD. No doubt laid down by those who prefer the "ooh yeah baby I can't live without your...." school of pop lyrics.

Tangentially, I listen to Spanish language musics a lot, usually on the car radio. I've noticed that a pop song cannot be considered complete, it seems, unless it mentions "corazon" at least once. Okay, that's exaggeration, but far fewer English-language pop sentiments require the word "heart." Check it out. Or someone write a doctoral thesis on the comparative cultural implications.

[Jay Reynolds]

Nice. I should clarify that I personally don't find SD's lyrics too oblique -- I loves me sum literary junk and stuff -- but that seems to be part of the standard rap against SD.

No worries. I didn't think you felt that way. Jes sayin'...

[joelpatterson]

During one dark chapter in my life, after I'd hit the East coast at the end of the 70's, I ended up staying at a house in D.C. that was sort of a "clearinghouse" for people at loose ends... It was the sometime residence of a doctor who specialized in Chinese accupuncture, and his office/treatment center/as well as crash pad for people like me, and his name was Kwing Wu. Very amazingly cool cat, very hip and spiritual as well as gregarious and pretty funny.

Someone told me this was THE "Dr. Wu," but for perhaps the first and last time in my life I just didn't believe my humble existence had intersected with a figure of pop legend. Boy have I gotten over that!

[RefD]

*reads Milne*

[adadan]

My first real experience with Steely Dan (not counting "Reelin' in the Years," which I didn't know was by them) was at about age 30 when a recording teacher spent a whole lecture of our studio practices class showing a documentary and playing tunes by them, since they were his favorite band and supposedly are widely considered among "pro" engineers to be the best recorded band ever. I had nightmares about them for the next two or three nights.

I'm definitely in the group where I tell somebody that they are not my thing, then they tell me that "if you're interested in recording, you have to listen to them, they are the best recorded band of all time," and then I like them even less. I've also never smoked pot in my life, so that may be a factor as well.

I could probably formulate that intellectual New York nerds + heroin = rock music that is not to my personal taste, if it were not for the Velvet Underground.

Strangely, after the Steely Dan lecture nightmares, my discovery of the above linked Yacht Rock episode about the rivalry between Steely Dan and the Eagles, led to me becoming mildly obsessed with the really smooth music of the late 70's/early 80's. I think my all time favorite line from Yacht Rock is in another episode about some other band, with Fagen and Becker sitting on the ground snickering after something bad happens to Loggins or somebody and he turns to them and yells "Shut it, Steely Dan!"

[JGriffin]

I'm definitely in the group where I tell somebody that they are not my thing, then they tell me that "if you're interested in recording, you have to listen to them, they are the best recorded band of all time," and then I like them even less. I've also never smoked pot in my life, so that may be a factor as well.

I have never smoked pot either, and I love Steely Dan.

[RefD]

I'm definitely in the group where I tell somebody that they are not my thing, then they tell me that "if you're interested in recording, you have to listen to them, they are the best recorded band of all time," and then I like them even less. I've also never smoked pot in my life, so that may be a factor as well.

I have never smoked pot either, and I love Steely Dan.

i never smoked it, but i sure as Hell inhaled alot in a room so full of it that you couldn't see the opposite wall.

however, we were listening to Metallica - Ride The Polka and AC/DC - Dirty Deeds "Thunderchief " at the time.

[Professor T]

Somebody once said, possibly even on this board, that they could not listen to Steely Dan without thinking of a lizard wearing sunglasses sitting by a pool drinking wine coolers.

I thought that about summed them up.

[roscoenyc]

Donald Fagen Defends Steely Dan to friends

[mjau]

Great Onion piece, as always.

[RefD]

Somebody once said, possibly even on this board, that they could not listen to Steely Dan without thinking of a lizard wearing sunglasses sitting by a pool drinking wine coolers.

I thought that about summed them up.

a GEICO ad turned into porn!

some of us apparently like that image.