Songs That "Go Somewhere"

CarlosEs · Post by **CarlosEs** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:14 am

First, I just want to say thanks to all you guys out there who share your knowledge on this board. I'm really grateful for the shitload that I've learned from lurking for a couple months now. This initial post was just something I was curious about, as far as getting a variety of responses.

Nearly every time I hear someone tell me that a song doesn't go anywhere, I try to get them to tell me an example of a song that does the opposite. I never seem to coax one out of them.

Obviously, the question is largely subject to individual tastes, but I was just hoping people could post examples of songs that they think have incredible direction and focus when it comes to taking you somewhere. That's a really vague sort of concept, but I guess the whole point of this is to see what everyone else's parameters for "direction" are. In the end, sometimes an artist's meandering excesses can be just as interesting and maybe more surprising but I'd be interested in hearing what people think are gold standards for tight compelling songwriting.

Here are a couple that just come to mind:
-Nina Nastasia "Ocean" (from The Blackened Air)
-Fugazi "Strangelight (The Argument)
-Portishead "The Rip" (Third)

;ivlunsdystf · Post by **;ivlunsdystf** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:52 am

It's almost too obvious: "Sweet Child of Mine". (Given the lyrics in the coda)

[EDIT: obviously the lyrics allude to going somewhere, but I named this song first because it is jam-packed with melodies and chord changes which are the real stuff that take it somewhere, IMO]

But actually, almost every song on Appetite for Destruction goes somewhere, I think in the sense that you mean. I am not a big GNR fan but I have great respect for these songs.

Then there is "Layla" [EDIT: the lyrics of Layla go nowhere at all, but the music goes somewhere for sure. Note that Layla and Sweet Child of Mine both have instrumental intros that never recur later in the song {and observe how rare that is in most songs}]

But there is the danger that I am just naming songs with codas which is borderline cheating. Here's another angle: Paul Simon's "Graceland" certainly goes somewhere without actually sounding different at the end. It starts in specifics (about driving in a car on the Mississippi Delta with the child of his first marriage) and goes way general by the end, taking gradual steps in that direction throughout each verse. By the end: "And I may be obliged to defend/Every love every ending/Or maybe there's no obligations now,/Maybe I've a reason to believe/We all will be received"

How is that for a song "going somewhere".

I can sit here with Pandora and find you songs, songs, and more songs that go nowhere and are totally unmemorable. The world is full of them. Only a rare few actually go anywhere. IMO.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:14 am

"Route 66"

"Ventura Highway"

"Thunder Road"

"2-4-6-8 Motorway"

"Leaving onna Jet Plane"

"Fast Car"

;ivlunsdystf · Post by **;ivlunsdystf** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:12 am

Good things to mention. Let's say HOW they go somewhere, though, so this doesn't just turn into one of those "these are my favorite songs" threads reminiscent of all the compulsive list making in that High Fidelity book/movie.

capnreverb · Post by **capnreverb** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:19 am

Semantics and the patience/attention span of the listener are really the factors here.

There are many mimamilist composers (Morton Feldman,Steve Reich,Giacinto Scelsi, etc) that on the surface seem stagnant, but with carefull listening evolve and go places using subtlety and gesture. Any piece of music/sound goes somewhere unless it is a stagnant tone, and even then your mind will modulate the sound with your thoughts and perceptions of what you are hearing.

Jazz also falls in this perception trap also. To someone who does not like free jazz or has pop song attention spans, a 20 minute John Coltrane solo will not go anywhere. Upon close detailed inspection, the mechanics of what he is saying go many places.

In the rock realm I think of a lot of post rock/art rock are the same way. Brian Eno, Tortoise, Can, Third Ear Band, Directions In Music, that first song on Shellac's Terraform. These are minimalist outlines that paint a very big picture, but if your trying to impose a structure of what it ought to be you wont see it.

Another good example of "not going anywhere" would be an Indian Raga. To the average listener, it probably only goes somewhere when the tabla's kick in half way through and then proceeds to go nowhere again. Unless you have the patience to hear the development of the theme, it can seem pretty stagnant.

People rely on formulas based on what they all ready have heard or are famalier with. When someone says they dont like something because it does not go anywhere, it's just a way out of explaining in detail why they do not like something.

As a side note on some of the examples mentioned, some follow a strict formula that does go somewhere, but its a place they all go. Verse, chorus, verse, bridge, solo, verse........ they do go someone, just like driving the same way to work everyday is going somewhere.

;ivlunsdystf · Post by **;ivlunsdystf** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:36 am

capnreverb wrote: As a side note on some of the examples mentioned, some follow a strict formula that does go somewhere, but its a place they all go. Verse, chorus, verse, bridge, solo, verse........ they do go somewhere, just like driving the same way to work everyday is going somewhere.

Nicely stated. You are more generous than I was, but that makes good sense to me. You have actually flipped this thread 180 degrees from the OP's point: your statement conveys an implicit challenge to name a piece of music that goes nowhere. Anyone?

darjama · Post by **darjama** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:28 pm

I'll agree with the above, a coda or bridge or key change that transforms the song are a key to a song going somewhere. A song that's just verse/chorus is going to depend a lot on the arrangement to make it go somewhere.

If I think of songs that don't go anywhere, typically it's ones with overly repetitive melodies, or verses and choruses that are too similar. Arrangements that don't breathe by changing during the song are another one.

A lot of the Interpol stuff comes off this way to me. The least interesting Metallica tracks. Outkast's "Hey Ya" doesn't really go anywhere aside from the arrangement.

kdarr · Post by **kdarr** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:35 pm

;ivlunsdystf wrote:
capnreverb wrote: As a side note on some of the examples mentioned, some follow a strict formula that does go somewhere, but its a place they all go. Verse, chorus, verse, bridge, solo, verse........ they do go somewhere, just like driving the same way to work everyday is going somewhere.
Nicely stated. You are more generous than I was, but that makes good sense to me. You have actually flipped this thread 180 degrees from the OP's point: your statement conveys an implicit challenge to name a piece of music that goes nowhere. Anyone?

Turn on your local mainstream hip hop radio station... you'll hear an entire station's programming built on songs that don't go anywhere. "Crank That" indeed.

[<|>]

DrummerMan · Post by **DrummerMan** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:02 pm

capnreverb wrote: Jazz also falls in this perception trap also. To someone who does not like free jazz or has pop song attention spans, a 20 minute John Coltrane solo will not go anywhere. Upon close detailed inspection, the mechanics of what he is saying go many places.

And on the flipside of this (though still agreeing with you), I've been part of musical projects, some free-jazz, some straight up rock or pop, where someone in the band insists that the piece just keep building and building, or puts in place alot of forced dynamics, but in the end, the tune is more boring and directionless than if they'd just let things be and stay "even".

Of course, when I think of other people's songs that "go somewhere" successfully, I'm usually thinking about a song that builds dynamically, breaks down in just the right way, has interesting sections that are fresh to the song without seeming disconnected compositionally, and has lyrical content that has subtext or multiple meanings that develop throughout the song, or throughout multiple listenings of the song. This type of thing can be really great, and/or can also be really pompous and masturbatory. I sometimes think a lot of prog rock came about through the desire to hone the art of the "song that really goes somewhere". I think that's why I give prog such a hard time, too, because I felt like I got sucked into it as a teenager looking for some grand exalted musical greatness that would still tap into the testosterone

, only to find there was was no kingdom of heaven waiting for you when you hit that 3rd bridge that modulates up a tri-tone and goes into 7/8 time.

Wow, here I go off again.... anyway, there's definitely plenty other types of music that do this too, but sometimes, I often, especially in the last few years, really want to listen to a song that doesn't "go somewhere" in that sense. I think alot of current "indie" rock is the anti-go-somewhere music, and I really appreciate the meditative qualities of things where you totally have to get into the "state" of the song to feel the directionality of it.

blah, blah, blah. anyways...

sorry, I have no examples of any of this for you in my head right now.

CarlosEs · Post by **CarlosEs** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:27 am

DrummerMan wrote:
Of course, when I think of other people's songs that "go somewhere" successfully, I'm usually thinking about a song that builds dynamically, breaks down in just the right way, has interesting sections that are fresh to the song without seeming disconnected compositionally, and has lyrical content that has subtext or multiple meanings that develop throughout the song, or throughout multiple listenings of the song.

Wow, here I go off again.... anyway, there's definitely plenty other types of music that do this too, but sometimes, I often, especially in the last few years, really want to listen to a song that doesn't "go somewhere" in that sense. I think alot of current "indie" rock is the anti-go-somewhere music, and I really appreciate the meditative qualities of things where you totally have to get into the "state" of the song to feel the directionality of it.

Yeah that was definitely what I was alluding to in the original post. Plus, I probably should have just specified that I was thinking about this from a pop perspective - even maybe in a very rigid sense that would exclude some things from great bands like Can and Tortoise, let alone Coltrane. In the end, you could probably just name a bunch of songs with awesome bridges and codas, and call it a day.

On the flip-side, I get what you're saying about anti-go somewhere music. I've been really getting into Clinic who seem to almost exactly embody the whole idea of "state" music. They have their hands in a fair amount of genres and styles, but that never really stops them from getting to the point.

Zoltar · Post by **Zoltar** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:59 pm

Freebird....

ok, seriously. I like modest mouse for keeping a song moving, and the Airplane over the sea keeps moving (especially two headed boy parts one and two).

Probably the most crazy example I can think of is Mr. Bungle : Merry go Bye Bye

most obvious, Stairway to Heaven

my favourite : the flaming lips, feeling yourself disintegrate.

I think protools and drum machines have destroyted dynamics and purpose in songs.

great topic.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:17 pm

Everything on Sonic Temple.

Ha ha, I agree with Zoltar.

Time for an internet Bro-Mance, Z.

Witch Craft, Frank Sinatra.

Not so much the Brady Bunch formula songs (all pop) but, just something that has a moment in it, a song that has a melody that lures you in, or, gives you goosebumps, and a point that is a goosebump orgasm, it could build all the way to the end, or it could have an extended goosebump moment.
Amazing Grace.
Tears of a Clown,

I know, those are ancient, but, they go somewhere. There's a reason that some songs get to #1 with not too much trouble and then stay there with no extra help even after years and years and years sometimes migrating to different charts, but, still there.
Does that make them Bad?

[/b]

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:40 pm

4'33" goes nowhere IMO.

Almost anything by Justin Timberlake goes somewhere.

dr.ona · Post by **dr.ona** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:24 pm

Frank Zappa.
Yes.
King Crimson.

Yeah I know it's 1970's stuff, but I agree that Protools has changed the way we record music now.
Honestly, other than jambands, I don't think music goes anywhere anymore.

Zoltar · Post by **Zoltar** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:56 pm

dr.ona wrote:Honestly, other than jambands, I don't think music goes anywhere anymore.

You know, I would completely agree with you here, but I think a lot of jam bands go nowhere too, so it isn't a mutually exclusive sort of thing.

I have been thinking about this thread with respect to my own recording. I have been getting away from live drums to make it easier, but I think I am going to have to compromise. maybe I'll go live cymbals, and go from there

Word up

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Songs That "Go Somewhere"

Songs That "Go Somewhere"

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