vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Discussion on new albums, developing listening skills, critical listening to others' work, as well as TOMB members' MP3 links, online recording critiques

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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by vvv » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:31 am

Re that phenomenon of vinyl "thinness", while I am certainly generations of playback gear removed as well, I do think that CD's vs. the original vinyl mixes allow greater enjoyment at lower volumes.

But then, I never really cared for the "loudness" button - I used to just crank it up to levels where that button would make no difference.
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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:01 pm

In the 'audiophile' forums you sometimes find any mention of tone controls derided as the antichrist of that sport. It's a straight wire or you're not doing it right. I get what they're saying, if your system is 'good enough' it should be giving you all that the music is providing as it was intended without having it go through uneccessary circuitry. you shouldn't need to enhance it. And that's cool and all, but sometimes your amp tone + speaker impedance + room acoustics + music format etc synergy (to use the vernacular) isn't giving you what you want to hear at the moment. With my fancy (for me) Rogue pre, Parasound amp, modded old Klipsch fortes system, yeah, no enhancement required in my tiny listening room. The situation I was mostly referring to in that last post was as a kid, listening late at night on phones. I liked the thicker, meatier more substantial atmosphere you could get messing with the loudness/bass/treble controls. All three dimed usually wasn't the destination of course.
And low volume speaker listening on my little tinny tiny initial system benefitted greatly with a boost down low and some definition up top.

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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:36 pm

Well, if vinyl is back (at least for some), then I guess these things might make a comeback as well (don't know if they were even popular in their heyday). Dynamic expanders...re-capping a dbx 119

Came across that re-activated old thread and realized I've got a couple of these old dbx units I got cheap somewhere and have never used beyond testing if they worked briefly. They've been sitting on a shelf forever. I don't even know if they have the blessed LM301 chips inside. Can't be bothered at the moment. My vinyl sounds fine as is, but it might be fun to mess around with dynamic expansion, and I'm sure I'll try out these boxes in the near future.

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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by winky dinglehoffer » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:02 pm

shedshrine wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:01 pm
The situation I was mostly referring to in that last post was as a kid, listening late at night on phones. I liked the thicker, meatier more substantial atmosphere you could get messing with the loudness/bass/treble controls.
Until I was 16 and bought a real system, I listened on something that was mostly identical to this:
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That was Beatles & Zappa & Ramones & Sex Pistols and Eno and so on.... So you better believe I was twisting the tone knobs! "I'm Only Sleeping" with the Bass at 10 and no Treble was as close as I got to drugs in those days.

Plus, if your stereo only goes to 10 & you need it to go to 11, how else can you get there except for diming the tone knobs?

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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:29 pm

Oh man, you started right off with a center channel! :)
Yeah, I was in the same boat, tiny one cone speakers. Yours at least looks like the center was your woofer, and the two sides were a little smaller for mids highs?
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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:20 am

if you don't use the DBX 117/119's with your vinyl, they can be fun to slap on drums in mixing. definitely that dbx sound. I even modded a couple to have 1/4" inputs, but that was mainly because the RCA plugs were all corroded so I had to do something anyway. Be mindful of where the unbalanced patch cords are at, and they don't always get too noisy.
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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:04 pm

Re; Dynamic range expanders:

over on audiokarma, re: an expander comeback:

"I've been using the dbx expanders and subharmonic synthesizers since the 70's. Besides vinyl and yes, even streaming, I've got a number of CDs that require expansion because they were so compressed when the master was put to CD. Expanders work if used correctly, if over applied they unfavorably alter the sound so a little goes a long way.

BTW, Harmon International owns dbx pro line and has absolutely NO interest in reviving the home audio line as of 4 years ago when I spoke with a company representative. Too bad, I liked their stuff and it pretty much did what they said it was supposed to do."



over on Audiophile Style:

"DBX Dynamic Range Expanders were looked down upon by the true audiophile world. They did pump . . . especially noticeable if your settings were close to or maxed out for full expansion. While I still own and operate one I am very judicious how I use. First off it has no value with much of the highly compressed music produced today. It’s seams funny I would say that but you really need some decent dynamic range before the DBX Range expansion can offer any benefit. It also has no use if your software has good dynamic range to begin with. Where I found it most useful was listening to rock music, on vinyl, at rock concert volumes. Back in the day we stacked speakers, stacked amplifiers, used Analog Parametric EQ,s and kept the equipment and Thorens turntable in another room.

Every once in a while I put on some import vinyl of The Clash or Ramones or like music and re-live the old days through my DBX"

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Steve Hoffman forum thread Dynamic Expanders....are they worth it?

Even after reading all that, there's no slam dunk yes or no either way. In any case, I already own two of the suckersand the gist I'm getting is it works for some things, not for others.

To that end, I think I'm just going to hook one up through my Rogue RP5 preamps processor loop and switch it in and out of the circuit whenever i feel like messing around and see how I feel about it.
________________________

Not hooked up yet but it will be Rogue processor out to Schitt Loki eq to dbx 119 to Rogue processor return. Completely switchable in and out of circuit so best of both worlds I'm thinking.

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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:32 pm

FYI

Originally posted by an aspiring vinyl lover on another forum
[br]
Originally posted by shedshrine
And getting great sound out of a vinyl system can be quite a labor of love. But a decent phono pre and cartridge along with a good setup through a decent system will get you a good sound.

Yeah, I did all the research, bought the fancy needle, and it is hooked into my incredible Yamaha 5.1 surround sound (movies and tv sound incredible.)

Still sounds awful. Actually fatigues my ears to listen and I find it incredibly unpleasant. The treble, something in the sound of it, it is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I basically give up trying to make vinyl sound good. Clicking on a youtube video for some music sounds 1000 times better than the horrible audio coming from my record player.

Hmmm, okay.
Excellent that movies and tv sound great. That means your amp and speakers are probably good to go.
And that's great that you've got a "fancy needle" on an, I'm assuming, well functioning turntable.
Now, like you, we use a Yamaha receiver in the livingroom. It's not a surround unit, but movies and tv sound great.
You know what didn't sound great through it though? You guessed it. Vinyl. Sounded shite.

I did a little research at the time and read good things about these little Lounge Audio LCR MKIII phono pres you see to the left of the turntable below.
It's their base model, for MM cartridges.
https://www.loungeaudio.com/lcr-series

Just using Blue Jean cables for interconnects.
Vinyl is on par with the movies and tv now for sure.

Those Yamaha receivers sound good, but the phono pre on them is just kind of an add on, they don't put a lot of money into that part of the build.

Doesn't have to be a Lounge pre, but from what your telling me, and from our experience, your phono pre would definitely seem to be a weak link in your chain.

___________
So here's our Yamaha receiver, the Lounge phono pre, a beat up technics 1200 with an Ortofon 2M blue, and some 2 way jbl bookshelf speakers. Sounds good. Definitely no "chalkboard" sounds coming out of this system.

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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:08 pm

Guy at work gave me his aunt's unwanted Dual 1229Q idler drive turntable several years ago. It had a broken tilt-back removable cover and all the transport linkage was seized. I had been thinking for sure I'd need to take or send it somewhere, but after reading up on them for a time found I could get it up and running with just a good clean and lube. So I did. That and grab a modern clear dust-cover and a new cartridge. I chose a Sumiko Moonstone in this case. Nostalgic sound, great for late night headphones.
These Duals are fully automatic when up to spec. I couldn't get the auto-start to work, but the auto-return is working perfectly. I can live with that.
Platter on these suckers is 6.7 pounds.




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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:39 pm

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Try out "Sassy" and "Circus"

(extra credit, Kurt giving a lecture...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2ut3QztyZU )

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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:27 am


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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:50 pm


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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:03 pm

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Discogs: "Title somewhat misleading as Eric Dolphy does not actually play on this album" Ya think?:)



Cream Best Of Double LP Compilations: Japanese edition with photos, American edition with years of hanging on a smokers wall and cool embossed graphics.

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Sometimes new albums come out and everybody complains about noise and ticks, 'noisy pressing' and all that.
I got this used, looked clean but gave it a wash, and surprise, sounds like a record you just bought.
Now all the vaguely 1950's reminiscent reverbed-out 90's synth pad laden off kilter unsettling Lynch/Badalamenti tunes come off without a hitch.

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______________________________________________

And the kid is getting her own collection off the ground. Here are the three long play discs from her fave band of the moment Crumb.

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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:43 pm

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So I picked up Rush’s Hold Your Fire today.


Seems to me these 200-gram Rush remaster/reissues of their entire catalog are meant as a gift from the band to fans and record collectors. Yes, they will make millions, but they didn’t have to put it out on 200 gram vinyl. Or maybe it just made good business sense, putting out truly amazing direct metal remasters on such heavyweight vinyl would surely help compel their fans to get their catalog all over again. Either way..

Being a long time Rush fan I already had many of their original issues. But... 'fantastic direct metal remasters on 200 gram vinyl'... I had already picked up many of the albums from this series. I had however passed on their three synth-heavy mid-80’s lps, which included, for me, the least exiting album of their discography Hold Your Fire.

When it came out originally I was early 20’s, still running around and crazy, and they sounded so mature and calm and soft and not rocking to my ears. Jumping around with the controls in the music store display, all I could think was where were the soaring, tortured harmonics-ridden Lifeson solos and extended interlocking jams? Based on that brief check-out of the album I wrote it off.

But several-decades-later me, seeing a minty remaster still with the hype and shrink in the bins, for basically the original price, well hell, might as well give it another shot.

Getting it home, Time Stand Still was and is a poignant charmer with its three word Aimee Mann chorus and savor the moment sentiment, one I understand much better now than I did at 20-something. And those are brief but tasty solos on Lock and Key and Open Secrets. Oh, and again on Turn the page.

Tai Shan. In 1987 I skipped right through it and honestly, it will never be a go-to song for me, but I get where Neil was coming from. Anyone who has ever traveled a bit has hopefully encountered some awe and wonder at the differences between where they are and where they are from. I got a summer gig on an oil tanker and used part of the money for a Eurail pass to backpack Europe for a few weeks.
While standing in Westminster Abbey, taking in the truly massive stained glass windows, gigantic arched gothic stone ceiling, walking past marble statues of kings..I looked down and realized I was standing on William Shakespeare's grave. and I lost it. For Neil to be taken by a visit to China is more than understandable.

But as for translating that awe into a Rush song? I read somewhere that he had said in an interview, if true, that he didn't care for the song later on, feeling that the lyrics were embarrassingly naive. Ah, here we go: Neil Peart's RUSH Bandmates Never Stopped Teasing Him Over "Tai Shan"

And for my take on Hold Your Fire, my memory of 'needle dropping' an overly bright-sheened listening experience at a record store cd listening station with the provided cheap headphones in 1987 was being replaced with an appreciation of a warm clear mix drawing me in to the lyrics and musicianship. I found I liked many of the songs. Trademark Rush sincerity I just had to grow into.


The bemused fluxtiplacations I felt about this album are expressed in a similar manner by this article.

https://www.decibelmagazine.com/2017/06 ... your-fire/


Rush search on discogs collection..

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Beyond that,

A really nice condition copy (second copy for me) of arguably the best Gabor Szabo album "Dreams", which sells for over a hundred or more online for nice specimens. It has an intricate, detailed pen-and-ink illustrated laminated cover, with gatefold, and was inexplicably sitting there in the new arrivals bins for $9.99, (Edit: when I got it home under good light, yeah it has seen some play, but still..)

A minty covered and not too bad conditon first press disc of Cream’s Disraeli Gears,

A cool re-issue of the Shirley and Robert Moog presented unusual classical album The Art of the Theremin, featuring the duo of Clara Rockmore on theremin, accompanied by her sister Nadia Reisenberg on piano. Maybe a bit samey sounding over an entire album, but an interesting Sci-fi operatic sounding trip nonetheless.

and a what-the-heck dollar bin gamble on an ancient, laminated-sleeved percussion album. Apparently, according to its title, it’s supposed to be provocative.

__________

The 1/4" reel to reel version of Szabo's Dreams uses the same 1919 John Austen cover art as the vinyl version, but here modifies it by using a reversed, negative image of the pen and ink drawing (entitled "Vision").


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Re: vinyl collecting ( and surrounding planetary atmosphere )

Post by shedshrine » Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:16 pm

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Keiko (serving): Are you done taking pictures? Some people want to eat!

Dave: Don't spill on the Thin Lizzy. I don't care about the Enya.

Me: I was going to use a U2 album but I couldn't find one in time.

Karen: Is there 'whiskey in the jar'?

Me: Ran out. Filled it with Guinness.

Tammy: I like Enya!

Me: I'm sure she tipples a Guinness now and again.

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