Are we a cult of amateurs?

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Professor
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Post by Professor » Mon May 26, 2008 4:44 am

Wow, I'm catching this one pretty deep in and there's so many possible things to comment on.

First things first, I guess:
fossiltooth wrote:This thread is getting a little long winded and needlessly intellectual for my tastes....
....and I'm one of the leaders in long-winded, needless intellectualism on this board :wink:
Watch it buddy... I define those phrases around these parts.


Really though I felt one phrase well up in me that I just thought was so clever I had to share:
So if the record labels brought a handful of talented bands to millions of eager fans, then I suppose the internet is bringing millions of eager bands to a handful of fans.

To me, that seems like an ironic contradiction.
Is it really easier than ever for a band to get noticed, or is it harder than ever?
I mean, I know there will be lots of guys here who will tell me, "well lots of my favorite bands are little, local, unsigned, blah, blah, blah". To me, those are the exceptions that prove the rule - you're among the handful that found your one-in-a-million band.
But is there a band that has actually transcended the maelstrom of excrement and emerged victorious by virtue of their own entrepreneurship?
I'm not talking about someone who has been picked up by a major label, because that's not the promise of the internet or the dream of the anti-corporate, anti-label crowd. I mean is there a band that has sold 100,000 units from the pile in their garage, paid for via PayPal, and without the involvement of the traditional mechanisms? Not 100,000 friends on MySpace, or 1,000,000 plays either, but real sales to real customers without external intervention?

If so, then who?

But more important - if not, then why not?!?!?

If the promise of the internet to the musician is the ability to reach a broader public market almost instantly, then why isn't the public buying the product?
Could it be that the same democratization has made the product inferior?
Even if some of it is "the greatest music someone has ever heard", is it hard to find those tiny flecks of gold among the millions upon millions of grains of desert sand that are nothing more than bits of rock, dirt and dust?


Democratization is an interesting concept.
Consider that in history class you once learned that the single most important cultural phenomenon to the development of civilization was the division of labor. Farmers grow food for others so those others can be carpenters who build houses for others so those other can be soldiers who fight for others so those others can be musicians who play music for others so those others can be whatever they might be.
Fast forward and really divide the labor, and musicians were once able to be musicians because their label provided someone else to be the manager, the producer, the engineer, the marketing team, the choreographer, photographer, hair-stylist, wardrobe deisnger, or whatever the hell else they might have needed.
Bach had the church to pay his salary and allow him to create. Richard Wagner had King Ludwig II. da Vinci had Lorenzo de Medici. The Beatles had EMI. And regardless of whether you like her or not, Britney had Jive records to help bring her to the 123-million record buyers who eagerly purchased her products.
Without any kind of labels to help artists, guide them, and give them the resources to develop their art & product, the musician will be forced to retain a day job, and often work unassisted as composer, lyricist, performer, engineer, producer, mixer, graphic designer, manufacturer, distributor, and marketer.

If division of labor allowed civilization to advance, then what happens when labor is reconsolidated?

No, I'm not saying that MySpace music is going to bring down civilization, but taken as a whole it's an interesting question to ponder. If division of labor allowed for the advance of civilization, is there a limit to the division that is possible? Maybe the music industry became too divided for it's own good - I don't think so, but maybe that could be an explanation. But does that mean the labor should be consolidated or further divided?

-Jeremy

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Post by GodDamn » Mon May 26, 2008 5:21 am

Professor wrote: But more important - if not, then why not?!?!?
I think because 9/10 people see music as background entertainment. They'll happily buy whatever record is currently being promoted in whatever newspaper/magazine they happen to read, because at the end of the day, it's just something to pass the time, or make a car journey more interesting.

You have to look to find good music, and most people just don't care enough to bother. Which is fine, its not a criticism; just the way that it seems to me.

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Post by Professor » Mon May 26, 2008 2:12 pm

So the music just isn't that important to the end consumer anyway?
It's meant to be a backdrop, just noise to fill the background?
Kind of like we are trying to put a Mona Lisa in every home, but the homeowners would just assume have a nice 'soft taupe' flat paint covering the whole wall to hide the raw drywall and act as a backdrop for the furniture, photos & living that goes on in the space.

Yeah, I can believe that to an extent.
They'll happily buy whatever record is currently being promoted
As for this though, maybe it shows some of the contempt between the artist and the consumer, that has certainly been around for a very long time.

If we believe that the democratization of music production somehow leads to more great art arriving at the fingertips of the potential listeners, then why do we so vehemently refuse to believe that the democratization of the listenership ensures that only the best music survives to become a hit.
It's not like all of the record labels, radio stations, TV stations, critics, and distributors conspire to release only one or two new artists a year. Rather they are all trying to compete with and out do each other to bring more and bigger stars to the markets.
How many new female artists did Jive alone bring to market in 1998, let alone all of the other labels?
Why did the world choose Britney?
Was everyone duped by the labels? Are they all just dumb sheep? Is that 'cult of amateurs' unable to identify the great artists like we 'experts' can?
Or is it possible that when it's all averaged together, the greater public does pick the best of the best? Maybe Britney was exactly what that segment of the market was waiting for. Hell, she released her debut album in 1999, but for the 2000 Grammy awards, all those "experts" gave the best new artist award to Christina Aguilera, the best female pop performance to Sarah McLachlan, and the best female rock performance to Sheryl Crow.


So I'd argue that if you belive that the cult of amateurs that make up the MySpace music phenomenon brings more high-quality music to the masses, and that the cult of amateurs who average the sum total of knowledge on Wikipedia exceed the abilities of a handful of specialized experts, then you would have to accept that the cult of amateurs that are the record-buying public actually can choose the best artists in every genre and era.

-Jeremy

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Post by tubetapexfmr » Mon May 26, 2008 2:37 pm

The cream always rises to the top.

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Post by Professor » Mon May 26, 2008 4:00 pm

jessemesasavage wrote:The cream always rises to the top.
It just gets there faster in a bucket than it does in tanker.


-J

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Post by drfringe » Wed May 28, 2008 9:23 pm

the media are largely amateurs reading canned scripts, I've learned tons on the internet. Even if it's an opinion, you can get many many more, and wikipedia is still the bomb, IMHO of course. :roll:

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Post by monkeyxx » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:55 pm

wikipedia is a crock of excrement

and Sgt. Pepper is a garbage album. I have always thought that was a worthless record.


- I like the intellectual vibrancy of this board, and the first page or so of this thread before it got tedious. Professor had a good post though

- I have really been thinking about the point.... I am spending all my free time and money recording these songs and albums.... but who's going to buy them??? I guess I'll just keep giving them away for free... at least some one will hear some of these songs. I'd rather that they listened to all 12 of them back to back on a CD. but who am I to talk. I don't buy CDs any more these days either. I do listen to them every time I drive though, and on my monitor speakers at home. long live the CD. or at least the full length album. long live live rocking music by passionate performers who know how to engage an audience (another good, motivating post)

and on a personal note, as a person blessed currently with a lot of free time, the post about musicians lacking time to develop their talents has got me feeling like an oaf for not exploiting and using my time and resources for betterment and productive work. good post! (posts)

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Post by tubetapexfmr » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:28 am

Sgt. Pepper is a garbage album. I have always thought that was a worthless record.
Surely you are referring to the Bee Gees soundtrack to that horrendous movie, not the Beatles album. If it is the Beatles album you are referring to let me be the first to say that you have no taste in music, knowledge of history, or appreciation for our art form of audio recording.

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Post by JGriffin » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:34 am

...and STAY down!
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

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All the DWLB music is at http://dwlb.bandcamp.com/

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Post by RefD » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:07 am

quite a first post to the board, tho.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:14 am

Hey, I get bored listening to Sgt. Pepper too. Just sayin'.

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Post by RefD » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:35 am

Tatertot wrote:Hey, I get bored listening to Sgt. Pepper too. Just sayin'.
yah, but it's hardly a garbage album.
@?,*???&? wrote:Personally, I love Garbage. I'd record Shirley Manson for free- 24/7.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:01 am

RefD wrote:
Tatertot wrote:Hey, I get bored listening to Sgt. Pepper too. Just sayin'.
yah, but it's hardly a garbage album.
@?,*???&? wrote:Personally, I love Garbage. I'd record Shirley Manson for free- 24/7.
"I get bored by it" and "it sucks" are two very different statements, too.

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Post by RefD » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:08 am

Tatertot wrote:
RefD wrote:
Tatertot wrote:Hey, I get bored listening to Sgt. Pepper too. Just sayin'.
yah, but it's hardly a garbage album.
@?,*???&? wrote:Personally, I love Garbage. I'd record Shirley Manson for free- 24/7.
"I get bored by it" and "it sucks" are two very different statements, too.
my listening interests go through phases, i think everyone has that.

sometimes i really don't want to hear The Beatles, sometimes i can't stop listening...i think i'm like that with every band/artist whose music i like.

can't say i get bored by much of it, however.

apart from about about half of the white album, that is.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

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Post by monkeyxx » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:27 am

yes, I much prefer the white album, let it be, help, rubber soul, abbey road


oh wait. I just remembered how awesome the Sgt. Peppers theme is, and Day In The Life


sgt peppers is just an album I've been bored with more than excited by, overall, despite some of the songs being excellent

I never cared for Revolver, either... as an album, same deal
Last edited by monkeyxx on Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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