Hey, keep it down willya? I'm in the middle of an auction right now and I really really wanna win it this time. Sheesh.dubold wrote:... drive up the prices of, say, the blackface Radio Shack EQ.
tape op messageboard - fastest mods in america!
Moderators: TapeOpLarry, tomb
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JGriffin
- zen recordist
- Posts: 6739
- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:44 pm
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"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."
"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno
All the DWLB music is at http://dwlb.bandcamp.com/
"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno
All the DWLB music is at http://dwlb.bandcamp.com/
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chris harris
- speech impediment
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- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
- Location: Norman, OK
- Contact:
see.. that's what I'm taking offense to. This thread seems like an attempt to soil someone's reputation based solely on assumptions. It's pretty weak. And, to do it publicly, as I said, borders on libel.dubold wrote:well, I don't have a horse in this particular race, but i'd say that the ebay thing was mentioned as more of an indicator as to how effective someone's glowing review of gear can be. That is, if people who are respected on this board rave about something, it's not just an opinion - it directly influences a run on the vintage whatever.
If you guys think that Joel is receiving kickbacks from Pigtronix, Tascam, SageElectronics, etc., then send him a PM calling him out. Ask him to explain himself and ask him to disclose his endorsements. Don't come on a messageboard with no real evidence and deliberately try to hurt his reputation.
It's the difference between spreading rumors, and confronting the man directly. I would have chosen the more mature route.
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Jeff White
- ghost haunting audio students
- Posts: 3263
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:15 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
- Contact:
As far as I am concerned, Joel has always seemed like an honest and cool guy. I think that if A) he had no idea what he was talking about B) the gear in question was shit and C) he never had anything positive to contribute to this community (info, advice, inspiration, etc) then this line of thinking, the "He's only in it for the money", may hold true. I've personally NEVER seen Joel as that guy.subatomic pieces wrote: The line of thinking in this thread implies that Joel is a dishonest person. And, it implies that his main motivation for participating in this forum is to promote gear he's being paid to promote. I don't believe either of these things. Joel emphasizes that it's the talent more than the gear as much or more than anyone else posting in this thread.
Let me say that I once mentioned an eBay auction for a squawk box (http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... t=movieola) and felt the wrath, and all I was trying to do was help a brother/sister out. I personally blame Joel, because if he never told me about the squawk box, then I never would have had to pay $35 for mine, and then I wouldn't have mentioned them, and then they would never have gone for as much as $100, nor would anyone even consider the solid state version.subatomic pieces wrote: And, I'm sure that people are pisssed that Joel mentioning a piece of gear here can affect ebay prices. But, I still have no clue what the hell that had to do with this thread. It usually involves used or discontinued gear. Maybe he's conspiring with used gear brokers to inflate prices of things that they have a surplus of?
*obviously sarcasm* I believe that the simple laws of supply and demand are at work here.You folks need to get over some shit.
Last edited by Jeff White on Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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joel hamilton
- zen recordist
- Posts: 8876
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 12:10 pm
- Location: NYC/Brooklyn
- Contact:
I just found this party...
Let me make a couple of things implicitly clear, to nip all this in the bud:
1. Joel gets free shit and goes and talks about it, like an advertisement.
I have not ever, not ONE time gotten anything for free that I have posted about, unless I specifically said, "these people gave me something, and I reviewed it, an they let me have it afterwards." That has happened, um, almost never, and NEVER... read that again: N E V E R has that been a part of the "deal" you seem to think exists between me and some gear manufacturers. Notice that some of the quotes n the sage page are FROM THE TAPEOP board!!! That is where they heard about me talking about their stuff! not the other way around. Just like ALL OF THE OTHER manufacturers you found my picture or name listed.... I met them either through tapeop , or through pals. If I like someones piece of gear, should I keep it a big fucking secret? does that help the recording community in any way? to keep secrets about what fucking mic pre I like or not? How many times do people say they like something, or dislike something in the GEAR TALK forum. Notice that when it is a "recording techniques" post I have made, funny, I dont say "you need to use a CHANDLER mic pre." I say, "use a good pre and record a lot." Get your fucking facts straight before you come railing against something you know nothing about.
2. Joel deleted posts that went against his views (or whatever you said)
I dont have the time to babysit all of the little things that happen on the 2 forums I am DONATING MY TIME to try and help make them run smoothly... and I personally started the threads, so whatever... you can delete your posts at will, as can I. Both o mine came under such bullshit atacks that steered the conversation away from the topic that I felt like it was my duty to delete them. They certainly did not add anything to the discussion, and certainly did not hip anyone to any cool trick or thing to look out for with those units, so why leave them sitting there?
I am very open to discussion, and I try to engage in any discussion I can possibly get to. I am taking a minute off from actally RECORDING an MIXING, so I have a minute to engage in this thread.
3. Motive
It may be hard for some of you cynical fucks out there to even understand this part, but I actually LOVE recording and mixing. I love my job. I really love making music and recording sound. I also very much like to share the experiences, tricks, techniques, and ideas, that stem from this love of the craft. Tapeop certainly does not pay for my 500 dollar plane ticket every year to go to the tapeopcon thing, but I am there. I certainly do not get paid or get free shit to moderate the two forums I am responsible for. I do it because I actually LOVE oing this. Even after all the years of doing what I do, I am not a cynical , jaded asshole that needs to poke holes in everyone else's way of working, or expressing themselves... especially on the fucking internet... jesus.... If these posts about me were not bordering on personal attack, o would not hav even replied. I had to take a deep fucking breath before typing this reply. The pissing contest aspects of this thread are incredible, and sad. If you dont like to record, and you dont like talking about gear, then go away! simple as that! Why the fuck would you even bother reading any of this messageboard if you have such a chip on your shoulder about life, or rather, what I have managed to do with MY LIFE?
Sorry to have told the truth here, I am sure it does not fit your distorted view of the person I actually am. I can not type fast enough, nor do I feel like I need to specifically adress all of your slanderous, clueless, and outright worng accusations hiding behind snarky little quips on the interweb.
Can we please get back to talking about recording soon? That is what brought me into the TapeOp world so many years ago, and continues to be fun as new manufacturers crop up...
The stuff I like is obvious, go to the studio G website and look at the gear list. sometimes I find something I think people should know about, and even (oh god) WITHOUT special treatment, or monetary compensation, if I actually believe in a piece of gear I will talk about it.
4. Ebay
How in the frig can I be held accountable for prices on ebay? dont fucking pay the prices, and they come down. !!??!!??!?!??
I wouldnt pay 200 dollars for a symetrix 501, a company that no longer exists, BTW, which I have mentioned again and again as one of the compressors I use that I feel is within the budget of some of the people on this board that may not have the money for a distressor. I do happen to like those things. I also like Neumann U47's and M49's, but would it not be an insult to the group at large (and NOT TRUE) to suggest that you NEED an M49 to make good recordings? Those things certainly managed to get expensive without me... also, if someone likes the way the stuff I have done sounds, great! That is what I hope for! That i the nature of this whole thing! But if they like the way something I have done sounds, AND they want to get a 200 dollar 501, is that somehow my responsibility? I am glad for them, that they are geting a good compressor, nd i hope they make good recordings with it, and I hear them and go, "shit, I need to try whatever that guy was doing with the 501." really. I like gear, because I like to hav nice tools. you dont have to, I dont care, just dont get in th way of me or any other people's discussion of a new piece, or your shitty posts WILL be deleted. plain and simple. Why should they stay? If ONE pyoung engineer gets ispired by ONE post I have made, then I feel really good about a contribution that actually meant something to someone, rather than a naysaying, bitchy, fuck the world type of post that does not help anyone.
Thats all I am going to say in this thread, unless asked a question directly.
Thanks for all your support and love.
-Joel
Let me make a couple of things implicitly clear, to nip all this in the bud:
1. Joel gets free shit and goes and talks about it, like an advertisement.
I have not ever, not ONE time gotten anything for free that I have posted about, unless I specifically said, "these people gave me something, and I reviewed it, an they let me have it afterwards." That has happened, um, almost never, and NEVER... read that again: N E V E R has that been a part of the "deal" you seem to think exists between me and some gear manufacturers. Notice that some of the quotes n the sage page are FROM THE TAPEOP board!!! That is where they heard about me talking about their stuff! not the other way around. Just like ALL OF THE OTHER manufacturers you found my picture or name listed.... I met them either through tapeop , or through pals. If I like someones piece of gear, should I keep it a big fucking secret? does that help the recording community in any way? to keep secrets about what fucking mic pre I like or not? How many times do people say they like something, or dislike something in the GEAR TALK forum. Notice that when it is a "recording techniques" post I have made, funny, I dont say "you need to use a CHANDLER mic pre." I say, "use a good pre and record a lot." Get your fucking facts straight before you come railing against something you know nothing about.
2. Joel deleted posts that went against his views (or whatever you said)
I dont have the time to babysit all of the little things that happen on the 2 forums I am DONATING MY TIME to try and help make them run smoothly... and I personally started the threads, so whatever... you can delete your posts at will, as can I. Both o mine came under such bullshit atacks that steered the conversation away from the topic that I felt like it was my duty to delete them. They certainly did not add anything to the discussion, and certainly did not hip anyone to any cool trick or thing to look out for with those units, so why leave them sitting there?
I am very open to discussion, and I try to engage in any discussion I can possibly get to. I am taking a minute off from actally RECORDING an MIXING, so I have a minute to engage in this thread.
3. Motive
It may be hard for some of you cynical fucks out there to even understand this part, but I actually LOVE recording and mixing. I love my job. I really love making music and recording sound. I also very much like to share the experiences, tricks, techniques, and ideas, that stem from this love of the craft. Tapeop certainly does not pay for my 500 dollar plane ticket every year to go to the tapeopcon thing, but I am there. I certainly do not get paid or get free shit to moderate the two forums I am responsible for. I do it because I actually LOVE oing this. Even after all the years of doing what I do, I am not a cynical , jaded asshole that needs to poke holes in everyone else's way of working, or expressing themselves... especially on the fucking internet... jesus.... If these posts about me were not bordering on personal attack, o would not hav even replied. I had to take a deep fucking breath before typing this reply. The pissing contest aspects of this thread are incredible, and sad. If you dont like to record, and you dont like talking about gear, then go away! simple as that! Why the fuck would you even bother reading any of this messageboard if you have such a chip on your shoulder about life, or rather, what I have managed to do with MY LIFE?
Sorry to have told the truth here, I am sure it does not fit your distorted view of the person I actually am. I can not type fast enough, nor do I feel like I need to specifically adress all of your slanderous, clueless, and outright worng accusations hiding behind snarky little quips on the interweb.
Can we please get back to talking about recording soon? That is what brought me into the TapeOp world so many years ago, and continues to be fun as new manufacturers crop up...
The stuff I like is obvious, go to the studio G website and look at the gear list. sometimes I find something I think people should know about, and even (oh god) WITHOUT special treatment, or monetary compensation, if I actually believe in a piece of gear I will talk about it.
4. Ebay
How in the frig can I be held accountable for prices on ebay? dont fucking pay the prices, and they come down. !!??!!??!?!??
I wouldnt pay 200 dollars for a symetrix 501, a company that no longer exists, BTW, which I have mentioned again and again as one of the compressors I use that I feel is within the budget of some of the people on this board that may not have the money for a distressor. I do happen to like those things. I also like Neumann U47's and M49's, but would it not be an insult to the group at large (and NOT TRUE) to suggest that you NEED an M49 to make good recordings? Those things certainly managed to get expensive without me... also, if someone likes the way the stuff I have done sounds, great! That is what I hope for! That i the nature of this whole thing! But if they like the way something I have done sounds, AND they want to get a 200 dollar 501, is that somehow my responsibility? I am glad for them, that they are geting a good compressor, nd i hope they make good recordings with it, and I hear them and go, "shit, I need to try whatever that guy was doing with the 501." really. I like gear, because I like to hav nice tools. you dont have to, I dont care, just dont get in th way of me or any other people's discussion of a new piece, or your shitty posts WILL be deleted. plain and simple. Why should they stay? If ONE pyoung engineer gets ispired by ONE post I have made, then I feel really good about a contribution that actually meant something to someone, rather than a naysaying, bitchy, fuck the world type of post that does not help anyone.
Thats all I am going to say in this thread, unless asked a question directly.
Thanks for all your support and love.
-Joel
You simply must realize that it smells weird when you pose in a Frontier ad and starts threads like this no matter by whom and how you were contacted:joel hamilton wrote: 1. Joel gets free shit and goes and talks about it, like an advertisement.
I have not ever, not ONE time gotten anything for free that I have posted about, unless I specifically said, "these people gave me something, and I reviewed it, an they let me have it afterwards." That has happened, um, almost never, and NEVER... read that again: N E V E R has that been a part of the "deal" you seem to think exists between me and some gear manufacturers. Notice that some of the quotes n the sage page are FROM THE TAPEOP board!!! That is where they heard about me talking about their stuff! not the other way around. Just like ALL OF THE OTHER manufacturers you found my picture or name listed.... I met them either through tapeop , or through pals. If I like someones piece of gear, should I keep it a big fucking secret? does that help the recording community in any way? to keep secrets about what fucking mic pre I like or not? How many times do people say they like something, or dislike something in the GEAR TALK forum. Notice that when it is a "recording techniques" post I have made, funny, I dont say "you need to use a CHANDLER mic pre." I say, "use a good pre and record a lot." Get your fucking facts straight before you come railing against something you know nothing about.
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... =tranzport
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chris harris
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4270
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
- Location: Norman, OK
- Contact:
that's weird. from that post, I gathered that he bought the Tranzport, loved it, sent them a testimonial, and then received a free mic stand adapter. I don't see how you could read more into that post, whether his pic appears in an advertisement or not. Hell, he even suggested that other users send in their stories for a free accessory, too.eskimo wrote:You simply must realize that it smells weird when you pose in a Frontier ad and starts threads like this no matter by whom and how you were contacted:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... =tranzport
Again, it's the assumption of shadiness that's insulting here. If I see someone I like and respect in an advertisement for a piece of gear, I assume that they wouldn't have done it if they didn't REALLY like the gear.
Honestly, these arguments and accusations are pretty idiotic. Do any of you really think that Joel NEEDS to get comped for a $199 remote control? How 'bout a $199 pedal?!?! Really?!?! If I was going to sell out my ethics and shill for some manufacturer, I'd damn sure wanna get something out of the deal other than an accessory that I could probably go buy with the cash in my wallet.
I think that Joel gushes about gear that he really finds inspiring and is excited about using. And, when gear manufacturers know that someone with tons of respect in the industry, and cred among his peers, is loving their product, I'm sure that they're all too happy to slap his name and testimonial on their website/ads.
So, in the confusing world that you guys are trying to create, should pro engineers NOT inform manufacturers when they love their products? Or, should they not tell ANYONE ELSE that they love those products? Because, obviously if you do both, you're a slimy sellout scumbag.
Well that sort of makes it even more weird. That thread doesn't even make sense.
What it includes:
1. Joel saying "I love the tranzport"
2. A link to an ad in shape of a webiste frontier was pushing at the time where people could get freebees if they sent in a testimonial.
From a guy who's probably the most influental on this forum.
The same guy who appears in their ads.
Again, I don't even care if he benefits, that's not my point.
I'm just saying it smells really weird. And being a moderator, why even put yourself in that position?
What it includes:
1. Joel saying "I love the tranzport"
2. A link to an ad in shape of a webiste frontier was pushing at the time where people could get freebees if they sent in a testimonial.
From a guy who's probably the most influental on this forum.
The same guy who appears in their ads.
Again, I don't even care if he benefits, that's not my point.
I'm just saying it smells really weird. And being a moderator, why even put yourself in that position?
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chris harris
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4270
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
- Location: Norman, OK
- Contact:
It's silly that a long-time contributor like Joel would even be accused of nonsense like this. It's definitely not my place to defend him. But, I do appreciate his contribution and in a world of horribly underinformed messageboard advice, I do also appreciate his opinions on gear.
A quick google search reveals that Joel was turned on to the Tranzport AND Pigtronix by other forum members. He seemed genuinely intrigued by both pieces of gear. I just assume that he tried them and loved them and is spreading the word. I don't really care if he's getting those things for free. Does he like it? Does he use it? And, how will it help me? That's really all I care about. I don't assume that he's lying just because the company chose to advertise that he's a satisfied user.
But, let me get this straight... you're saying that whether or not he's getting free gear or is involved in any kind of official endorsement "deal", you assert that just having your name mentioned in any kind of advertisement or testimonial should preclude you from discussing a piece of gear that you like and know well enough to educate others on its uses/benefits?
A quick google search reveals that Joel was turned on to the Tranzport AND Pigtronix by other forum members. He seemed genuinely intrigued by both pieces of gear. I just assume that he tried them and loved them and is spreading the word. I don't really care if he's getting those things for free. Does he like it? Does he use it? And, how will it help me? That's really all I care about. I don't assume that he's lying just because the company chose to advertise that he's a satisfied user.
But, let me get this straight... you're saying that whether or not he's getting free gear or is involved in any kind of official endorsement "deal", you assert that just having your name mentioned in any kind of advertisement or testimonial should preclude you from discussing a piece of gear that you like and know well enough to educate others on its uses/benefits?
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joel hamilton
- zen recordist
- Posts: 8876
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 12:10 pm
- Location: NYC/Brooklyn
- Contact:
I just thought of a good example:
The whole fucking thing about the focusrite liquid channel. I said ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD, that "I wanted to hate it.....blah blah blah..."
The following month, that VERY QUOTE FROM THE MESSAGEBOARD showed up in the print ads for the focurite liquid channel, attributed to "the tapeop messageboard" as it is a public forum, and they did not have my written OK to use my name, they just said "the tapeop messageboard" as the quotes "author." did any of you get free shit from focusrite because if you post here, that could have been YOU?!??!?
I did not have ANYTHING to do with that, at all. SOme much nicer people from other companies have used things I have said here, UNSOLICITED COMMENTS, and actually asked if it was okay if they use the quote on their site which of course it is, because I like their product.
Please, oh wizards of the world wide web, PLEASE explain to me how this in any way would constitute a conflict of interest, when the use of the words I have written is:
A. Unsolicited
B. Not Paid for in any way, but maybe on a deal on my NEXT purchase, as we have usually developed an actual working relationship at that point.
C. Not biased in ANY way other than my ears, and way of working, which I do not expect would be the same for your personal way of working, an I make that clear in MANY, MANY posts that I wont bore you with, but one recent one about the Joly modded microphone Vs a U47 comes to mind in the gear talk forum. I Hope to god either of those companies feel like they want to send me microphones based on my comments....
D. Please find some concrete PROOF that I have been anything but forthcoming with my OWN PERSONAL FINDINGS, and though editorial and subjective, certainly as true to my self as I have ever been .PLEASE try and find some proof, or shut your fucking ignorant mouths about anything to do with me, or my ethics, because I dont know you, other than your sophmoric, assinine attacks on someone you seem to have decided you know anything about.How about finding any posts that seem underhanded, or with an ulterior motive of any sort?
Thanks again for all the love.
The whole fucking thing about the focusrite liquid channel. I said ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD, that "I wanted to hate it.....blah blah blah..."
The following month, that VERY QUOTE FROM THE MESSAGEBOARD showed up in the print ads for the focurite liquid channel, attributed to "the tapeop messageboard" as it is a public forum, and they did not have my written OK to use my name, they just said "the tapeop messageboard" as the quotes "author." did any of you get free shit from focusrite because if you post here, that could have been YOU?!??!?
I did not have ANYTHING to do with that, at all. SOme much nicer people from other companies have used things I have said here, UNSOLICITED COMMENTS, and actually asked if it was okay if they use the quote on their site which of course it is, because I like their product.
Please, oh wizards of the world wide web, PLEASE explain to me how this in any way would constitute a conflict of interest, when the use of the words I have written is:
A. Unsolicited
B. Not Paid for in any way, but maybe on a deal on my NEXT purchase, as we have usually developed an actual working relationship at that point.
C. Not biased in ANY way other than my ears, and way of working, which I do not expect would be the same for your personal way of working, an I make that clear in MANY, MANY posts that I wont bore you with, but one recent one about the Joly modded microphone Vs a U47 comes to mind in the gear talk forum. I Hope to god either of those companies feel like they want to send me microphones based on my comments....
D. Please find some concrete PROOF that I have been anything but forthcoming with my OWN PERSONAL FINDINGS, and though editorial and subjective, certainly as true to my self as I have ever been .PLEASE try and find some proof, or shut your fucking ignorant mouths about anything to do with me, or my ethics, because I dont know you, other than your sophmoric, assinine attacks on someone you seem to have decided you know anything about.How about finding any posts that seem underhanded, or with an ulterior motive of any sort?
Thanks again for all the love.
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joel hamilton
- zen recordist
- Posts: 8876
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 12:10 pm
- Location: NYC/Brooklyn
- Contact:
Thanks for all the kind posts. I am sure you will be accused of something just by being intelligent about this trivial little situation...subatomic pieces wrote:It's silly that a long-time contributor like Joel would even be accused of nonsense like this. It's definitely not my place to defend him. But, I do appreciate his contribution and in a world of horribly underinformed messageboard advice, I do also appreciate his opinions on gear.
A quick google search reveals that Joel was turned on to the Tranzport AND Pigtronix by other forum members. He seemed genuinely intrigued by both pieces of gear. I just assume that he tried them and loved them and is spreading the word. I don't really care if he's getting those things for free. Does he like it? Does he use it? And, how will it help me? That's really all I care about. I don't assume that he's lying just because the company chose to advertise that he's a satisfied user.
But, let me get this straight... you're saying that whether or not he's getting free gear or is involved in any kind of official endorsement "deal", you assert that just having your name mentioned in any kind of advertisement or testimonial should preclude you from discussing a piece of gear that you like and know well enough to educate others on its uses/benefits?
i don't want to provoke a battle or sound like i'm picking sides or anything...
but with that said, i had a chance to meet the whole studio g crew last summer and those 3 guys are BY FAR the coolest and most inspirational guys i've ever met since i started playing music and recording 15+ years ago. those guys get equally excited over a $5000 mic and a $5 weirdo effects pedal.
even if joel's neve was free and his u47 came gift wrapped, who cares?
if you think the integrity of the forum is at risk, just think of the advice you get from people who've never even used gear they talk about!!!
If you still think there is a conflict of interest, please find one other person on this forum or any other forum on the internet who encourages people to save their money and practice their craft. i've seen joel tell people this time and time again on here and on gearslutz when he sees a "spend my $1000" thread.
but with that said, i had a chance to meet the whole studio g crew last summer and those 3 guys are BY FAR the coolest and most inspirational guys i've ever met since i started playing music and recording 15+ years ago. those guys get equally excited over a $5000 mic and a $5 weirdo effects pedal.
even if joel's neve was free and his u47 came gift wrapped, who cares?
if you think the integrity of the forum is at risk, just think of the advice you get from people who've never even used gear they talk about!!!
If you still think there is a conflict of interest, please find one other person on this forum or any other forum on the internet who encourages people to save their money and practice their craft. i've seen joel tell people this time and time again on here and on gearslutz when he sees a "spend my $1000" thread.
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Jeff White
- ghost haunting audio students
- Posts: 3263
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:15 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
- Contact:
I personally think that this thread sucks, and attacking Joel sucks, especially since he is constantly going out of his way to give professional advice based on experience and a good set of ears. Over what? His enthusiasm for gear?
You haters should all play with this awesome piece of gear long enough to get an endorsement:
http://www.limmy.com/playthings/xylophone/
You haters should all play with this awesome piece of gear long enough to get an endorsement:
http://www.limmy.com/playthings/xylophone/
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