I need arrangement advice. Acoustic demo.

[dynomike]

Hi,

I've been working on this new song for a couple of weeks and kind of like it, but I have 3 verses in a row before the chorus. If I add drums + bass in after the 1st verse, maybe it will have enough to keep interest? I didn't really want to separate the verses. Anyway, I'm having some trouble and I'd like to get some other opinions. I'll post the finished version of course, when I get a weekend to record the drums, etc, outside of my apartment. Thanks for listening.

80kpbs mono mp3

Mike

[dynomike]

for those that care, I just recorded this in 2 takes (1 guitar, 1 vocals) with an at 4047 -> behringer ada8000 -> motu 2408 -> sonar 2.2

I used waves rcl on both tracks. On the acoustic guitar I used req with a 3db boost at 12khz and a low-shelf -4db at 120hz. Vocals - no eq but I employed the marvellous spitfish de-esser and autotune 3. I will try to refrain from using autotune on the final version. The artifacts can be kind of distracting.

[gandhabba]

Nice song.

Maybe you could think of it as more of a verse/refrain type form than a verse/chorus type form, especially since the verses are fairly long. Then the part you are calling the chorus now could be more like a bridge. I know lyrically that could change things a bit (or not).

That said, it sounds fine to me, and if you really like those 3 verses at the beginning, then so what if it defies some law of songwriting.

Good work !

[ataraxia]

you'll hate this advice...but for a hook in mouth type song....(if that is the goal)
keep 1st verse the same.
come in a full band on a second verse.
no third verse.
chorus, full rock
2measure guitar interlude, overlap with a droney "candy apple" 1 per measure getting....more intense this is a the hook you'd want. subtle
verse 1/2 time drums
and "candy apple " out pretty like intro....
with background vocals mimicking recomendation of earlier drone style, but dying instead of intensifying.

viola know it's the perfect radio song

[dynomike]

you'll hate this advice...but for a hook in mouth type song....(if that is the goal)
keep 1st verse the same.
come in a full band on a second verse.
no third verse.
chorus, full rock
2measure guitar interlude, overlap with a droney "candy apple" 1 per measure getting....more intense this is a the hook you'd want. subtle
verse 1/2 time drums
and "candy apple " out pretty like intro....
with background vocals mimicking recomendation of earlier drone style, but dying instead of intensifying.

viola know it's the perfect radio song

Eek. You know, except for the terrible hook idea that would work quite well. I was thinking most of these things... as in, the plan to come in 2nd verse with the band, etc. I don't know about this vocal hook overtop of things. Not me. Maybe a lead guitar hook can take its place, and not make me vomit. I was thinking the last verse would just go back to acoustic guitar... but could it build back into a rockin last chorus? Probably too abrupt. It would be much easier with a band to jam it out. Thats my excuse.

Thanks for the comments. I may consider dropping the 3rd verse.. but I like it, and the song's already pretty short. We'll see, I'll let you know when I do the final version.

Mike

[leigh]

I've been working on this new song for a couple of weeks and kind of like it, but I have 3 verses in a row before the chorus. If I add drums + bass in after the 1st verse, maybe it will have enough to keep interest? I didn't really want to separate the verses. Anyway, I'm having some trouble and I'd like to get some other opinions. I'll post the finished version of course, when I get a weekend to record the drums, etc, outside of my apartment. Thanks for listening.
Mike

Mike,

How's this one going? I've worked with similar song structures, with a bunch of verses stuck together. It requires inventive arranging, yes, but I think it's funner in the end than just going for verse/chorus/verse.

So right now, I'd map the structure as: VVVCBVC
(verse, chorus, bridge)

I'd suggest holding back on the full drums coming in until that first chorus. But build the tension up to that point, keep it interesting for the listener. And there's a rhythmic motif already working in your favor for that. You've got that rhythm in the chorus, the quarter note downbeats (under "as we wandered on I got to thinking" in C1), that's foreshadowed at the end of each verse (e.g. "you never would be mind" in V1).

So add things, maybe even drums, over that part at the end of each verse, kind of teasing that the arrangement will come in heavy, but then take it away. Until the first chorus, when it actually will come in heavier. Also, don't take it all away - maybe come in with drum hits and and bass the first time. The drums just do the three hits over "never would be mine", then stop; the bass does those hits but continues, and helps build the tension.

Hope this is clear. It's a cool song, all about the tension of the situation and the narrator, and there's a lot you can do to play on that tension for the listener.

Cheers,
Leigh

[dynomike]

Thanks for the thoughts leigh.

My current thinking is not so much lack of drums in the verse but lack of cymbals. This worked really well for bands like pedro the lion and counting crows who have somewhat sparse arrangements.

I guess in response to your comments I'll let you know what I am thinking currently, perhaps I'm coming in too soon with the drums, its hard to know.'

Short intro and first verse, 1 acoustic.

Verse 2 - drums (just kick 1,3, and snare 2,4) no cymbals - and bass, quarter note bass line octave up.

at "aligned.. my toy gun.. with his target" when the sweeping slow part comes in i would add a 2nd acoustic or clean electric. pause on "knew it would be mine", come back into...

verse 3 - same, but bass lower octave. still no cymbals. 2nd guitar is in, playing roughly same thing. percussion 8ths? or tamborine doubling snare?

i may have xylophone doing some light stuff on quarter notes kind of along with the bass in this part.

shaker on 16ths comes in before the chorus "i knew you would be mine" and instruments build during that gap might start on cymbals in this chorus.

cuts suddenly to 2 guitars and xylophone for bridge.

back to 1 acoustic, maybe light xylophone in verse 4.

more obvious build to a rockin 2nd chorus with cymbals, shaker, the whole sh-bang.

Obviously I'm focusing a lot on this xylophone thing. But I think mainly, having the drums without cymbals still leaves a lot of space to build within the verses. If it goes down as I imagine it, it should be good! I'll let you know when its done... feel free to comment now though, since I may not get a chance to record it for a while (no xylophone, no tamborine, no time to move all my stuff to record drums at my parents) . Thanks for the advice.

Mike

[leigh]

Sounds cool, I'd say go for it. I'll pretty much always agree with the idea of kick/snare sans cymbals!

You can always play arranger with the mute buttons if you wind up tracking too much.

Leigh