Kerry Wins Ohio?!?!

[ottokbre]

Iraq Body Count gets it's data strictly from Media reports. You know, the media thats stuck at the The Palestine Hotel.

The Lancet model is the first to emulate the UNICEF method as done in 1998 that made us all realize that Clinton's Sanctions were killing a lot of people.

It's far more thorogh considering that have people go out and find actual death certificates from hospitols. Also remeber our government said clearly "we dont do bodycounts". These findings are not only likley, and in harmony with westerners eye witness accounts, they are uncontested.

Now seriously John, you can choose to deny all you want. In the end, it just makes you a bigger asshole if you can't even see the data in front of your face, let alone start talking about accountability.

[TrumpsHair]

I live in New Mexico and can tell you after living here for 13 years and putting up with this election being the hot topic of discussion (even in public places-we're friendly out here) that there is no way in Hell New Mexico voted for Bush. No way in Hell.

Now, that's just my opinion, I have no facts to back that up. But I know these people here very well and the election has been the hot topic of public conversation; still. Everyone in public that is talking about the election is shocked that Kerry didn't get the New Mexico vote.

You could say (as was said before) that only the Democrats are the ones talking, but what the fuck does that mean?

Is there something, then, that Republicans don't want to talk about? Why in the world would Democrats be the only one's talking about the election? No sir, I don't buy it. This is a Democratic state who is loyal to it's famous Democratic governor Bill Richardson (for the most part of course). The fact that New Mexico is being counted as a Bush victory is not being swallowed out here.

Something's up. too many people are smelling a rat. Problem is, the inmates are contolling the asylum.

[T-rex]

This is some of the first things I thought, but would never say cause I just don't get into conspiracy theories etc. But all the exit polls showed Kerry way ahead, there was massive turnout and Bush still wins huge? It doesn't make any sense that all the exit polls were wrong. All of them.

But Kerry saw the same exit poll data, so if he thought their was a rat, surely he would have fought it for a bit instead of just folding. So either he didn't want to look like Gore or he really thought he was beat. Or Cheney threatened to beat him up. . .

[MASSIVE Mastering]

It doesn't make any sense that all the exit polls were wrong. All of them.

It certainly doesn't... Especially so pro-Kerry when every single poll of normal importance called the race down to about a point.

The media/Dems were trying to pull something on this one... Even a lot of Dems think so. I've seen an awful lot of reports, but I'm waiting to see something more substantial.

I've seen a lot of exit polls - In 2000, that's what started the whole ball rolling in Florida. Calling the (accurate, but too early at the time) exit polling data for Gore and then the state while the polls were still open, and a huge part of the population in a very Bush-heavy area didn't vote because of it.

[ottokbre]

Exit Polling is always shitty though. And last year people were saying it did more hamr than good. People, this was'ent a landslide victory! The margin of error on these things is a lot bigger than national polls, which were mostly right this time around.

[tkheadroom]

So it really didn't have anything to do with being stupid if you were forced to vote with a provisional ballot in Ohio. I moved in June, one precinct over in Cleveland, so I changed my address with the B.O.E. I went upstairs and talked to a clerk who verified that I was registered while I was standing there, and corrected the space in my last name. I filled out the card to change my address and waited for my voting card to show up. Wait I did, I finally got my card on November 1st, that's Monday in case you didn't know. When I got to the polls I waited an hour while my girlfriend, who voted in the same place, different precinct, waited about 10 minutes. Her precinct had 200 people on the list, mine had 1000. So... after waiting an hour, I got to the old guy with the book and found out, to my chagrin, that I wasn't listed and had to fill out a provisional. No one seemed too sure about the process, including which of the many fields to fill out. Anyway, I got my ballot and proceeded to vote, worried the whole time that it wouldn't count. When I turned to leave I noticed a Cleveland Plain Dealer photographer. The next day, I noticed that on the front of the special election section of the paper, you could see me standing at a voting booth, what was I doing? Well, I was voting, around the corner from my apartment, in the right place, where I was registered.

So, was my vote counted? Because I've got proof that I was there, my name is on the ballot, they can come over and see me tonight, I'll be here. I wrote a message to the Kerry campaign, urging them to fight for this. Evidently, spending milliions of dollars and travelling around the country and mobilizing people doesn't matter as much as a corrupt secratary of state and a republican lead statehouse full of corrupt corporate whores.

Oh well...

[syrupcore]

You and others here keep touting "100,000." between 8 and 10 times the actual count, no matter WHO you believe.

Even http://www.iraqbodycount.org has a number between 14 & 16,000.

I agree Massive, the number seem(ed) kinda overblown to me too. I looked around and here's as in-depth an article I've seen about how the 100,000 figure has come up. 'slicing and clustering' survey technique. it's pretty fascinating. one of the (33) clusters was falujah so the results are proly a little skewed. Even if it's off by say, 200%, 50,000 is pretty alarming. fuck, if 14,000 isn't alarming enough, we must be dead.


Maybe Hillary could change the banner to read 'Tape Op Does Not Support War'.


Will

[Tim Casey]

MarcoPogo, thanks for providing the link to where I got my numbers from. I keep forgetting I'm arguing with Fundamentalist Bushites, so I have to back up everything I say.

"Tim, I told myself I was going to try and stay away from the political threads here, but I'm really sick of some of this sh*t.

The most leftist propaganda laden sites put the "body count" anywhere between 10 & 16,000. "

Massive Murderer, every one of the "only" 10-16000 people that we've killed were killed for no reason. They had nothing to do with 9/11, they posed no threat to us, and Bush knew that before going in. That makes him a fucking murderer. Now, I know that all you Nazis were outraged that an adulterer was in the White House, but doesn't it at least BOTHER YOU A BIT that now we have a mass murderer in the White House and that you and 50% of your fellow citizens aren't bothered by that? In fact, you ADMIRE the religious psychopath that has caused so much REAL pain and suffering around the world!

I'm sure many people in Germany ADMIRED Hitler during the thirties, and I'm sure that anyone who criticized him was dumped on pretty heavily. Of course, ten years later you would have been shot for criticizing him. I wonder if it'll come to that in America as our money runs out.

[bobbydj]

Afuckinmen.

[bigtoe]

i registered 3 times in ohio before i got my card. if i was a black woman on E 55th i probably wouldn't have.

check out 'unprecidented' about what happened in FLA the last time. the same thing happened here...i'm pretty upset kerry is saying heal.

npr ran this story about some kerry chick finding out a woman she was for bush. the woman for sush finally told her she was a bush supporter after the election. she said "see the world didn't end!" meanwhile bombs drop in iraq.

i will say the issue of gay marriage came up at the wrong time at least here in ohio. i think that had more to do with 'bush' people getting out to vote here than bush. it's still a fucked up country...the news is calling it morality. it's straight up bigotry and hatred. what pisses me off is no one is calling it what it is. morality. please.

it's not ok to have beliefs that discriminate and make them the mainstream. that's not a valid opinion. "well that's my opinion they're going to hell." it's not. replace gay with black or woman.

Mike

edit- shouldn't say that from work.

[joeysimms]

Listening to Greg Pallast's take last nite on kpfk, he and his team have some proof of the kinds of tampering that went down in OH, some of which has been touched on here.. For instance, did you know that one trick was to ask young people to sign a petition to legalize marijuana, when in fact, they were re-registering these folks as republicans and changing their adresses, thereyby discounting their votes come election day because of the discrepency. pallast and Co. have this case sitting before the state right now, but they were told it would have to wait a "few weeks" (read:too late) beofre it could be dealt with.

Pallast also talked to pollster groups who admitted "smoothing" out the results to match what the results ended up being, in effect doing away with the very reason for having the polls. The exception is Zabot, who will probably never be heard from again.

Also, the likelyhood that young voters like the poster above, who were given a provisional ballot may as well have wiped their ass with it, because an overwhelming % of those provisionals were immediately set aside as the small percent that need to be thrown out each time.

Finally, if this situation in OH is that crooked, then why did kerry back down so easily? because, according to state law, Kerry would have to bring a lawsuit for each and every vote he suspected was tampered, or otherwise 'persuaded immorally', and that would mean choking upthe system with over 250,000 lawsuits.

Don't get me wrong, I still beliegve if the Dems had some balls and ran the kind of campaign that was necessary, instead of simply banking on everyone despising Bush, that we wouldn't be having this conversaation. But, still, this crooked shit needs to be at least spotlighted and addressed so that there is no funny stuff next time.

[joeysimms]

Listening to Greg Pallast's take last nite on kpfk, he and his team have some proof of the kinds of tampering that went down in OH, some of which has been touched on here.. For instance, did you know that one trick was to ask young people to sign a petition to legalize marijuana, when in fact, they were re-registering these folks as republicans and changing their adresses, thereyby discounting their votes come election day because of the discrepency. pallast and Co. have this case sitting before the state right now, but they were told it would have to wait a "few weeks" (read:too late) beofre it could be dealt with.

Pallast also talked to pollster groups who admitted "smoothing" out the results to match what the results ended up being, in effect doing away with the very reason for having the polls. The exception is Zabot, who will probably never be heard from again.

Also, the likelyhood that young voters like the poster above, who were given a provisional ballot may as well have wiped their ass with it, because an overwhelming % of those provisionals were immediately set aside as the small percent that need to be thrown out each time.

Finally, if this situation in OH is that crooked, then why did kerry back down so easily? because, according to state law, Kerry would have to bring a lawsuit for each and every vote he suspected was tampered, or otherwise 'persuaded immorally', and that would mean choking upthe system with over 250,000 lawsuits.

Don't get me wrong, I still beliegve if the Dems had some balls and ran the kind of campaign that was necessary, instead of simply banking on everyone despising Bush, that we wouldn't be having this conversaation. But, still, this crooked shit needs to be at least spotlighted and addressed so that there is no funny stuff next time.

[concubine]

Listening to Greg Pallast's take last nite on kpfk, he and his team have some proof of the kinds of tampering that went down in OH, some of which has been touched on here.. For instance, did you know that one trick was to ask young people to sign a petition to legalize marijuana, when in fact, they were re-registering these folks as republicans and changing their adresses, thereyby discounting their votes come election day because of the discrepency. pallast and Co. have this case sitting before the state right now, but they were told it would have to wait a "few weeks" (read:too late) beofre it could be dealt with.

Pallast also talked to pollster groups who admitted "smoothing" out the results to match what the results ended up being, in effect doing away with the very reason for having the polls. The exception is Zabot, who will probably never be heard from again.

Also, the likelyhood that young voters like the poster above, who were given a provisional ballot may as well have wiped their ass with it, because an overwhelming % of those provisionals were immediately set aside as the small percent that need to be thrown out each time.

Finally, if this situation in OH is that crooked, then why did kerry back down so easily? because, according to state law, Kerry would have to bring a lawsuit for each and every vote he suspected was tampered, or otherwise 'persuaded immorally', and that would mean choking upthe system with over 250,000 lawsuits.

Don't get me wrong, I still beliegve if the Dems had some balls and ran the kind of campaign that was necessary, instead of simply banking on everyone despising Bush, that we wouldn't be having this conversaation. But, still, this crooked shit needs to be at least spotlighted and addressed so that there is no funny stuff next time.

amen to that. i wish i had been able to catch the pallast thing you're referencing. regardless of kerry's premature concession, the issue of shady voting fraud desperately needs to be addressed. it's only going to get worse, people. if republicans can get away with it this time, that gives them a free pass to keep it up, and even broaden their scope, in future elections.

sadly, our freaking conservative media probably won't give a crumb of attention to the efforts of pallast et al. as far as the media is concerned, the election was decided by morality (eg - bigotry), kerry lost ohio, "thank god we didn't have another florida, time to move on, end of story. and that is just one step closer to the erosion of the democratic process.

that'd be awesome if we could get the UN in here to monitor all swing states next election. if this kind of corruption occurred in some third world country, you can bet the UN would get involved. what we're seeing here is something the US has done with other countries for decades, particularly in latin america. and if rigging elections failed, they'd bring in the pinnochet, bring in the contras, etc...

[monkeyboy]

He lost.

[concubine]

He lost.

and your point?

my point is, regardless of who really won, voting shenanegins need to be exposed and addressed. right now, this isn't happening with anywhere near the scope that it should.