AIR foh fiasco

norton
buyin' a studio
Posts: 839
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:42 pm
Location: minneapolis

AIR foh fiasco

Post by norton » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:54 am

Saw AIR last night at a cool old theatre and got blasted, and i mean f**king blasted by the subsonic bass crap that the foh guys were pumping out.

band was great, awesome drummer/bass player and the two face men were great too...but it was really difficult if not impossible to hear ANY guitar or voice through the sub bass rumble.

on the songs without a bass guitar, more guitar/voice would come through but even then the synth bass would take over and just drown out anything else.

so is it me or is the foh standard to have the room sound like the car next to you stopped at the lights?

User avatar
joeysimms
ears didn't survive the freeze
Posts: 3838
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:10 am

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by joeysimms » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:21 am

I haven't been to a big show in a long long time, but it seems like the sound is always bad. For one thing, they set up and check evrything with an empty hall, so there goes your upper mids and highs. It's always low-mids and bass that I hear at these kinds of shows, and it sounds like mud. Sometimes, after a few songs, some adjustments for the better are made, but most of the time it stays mud.
beware bee wear

Current Resistance
gettin' sounds
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:09 am
Location: Chicago

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by Current Resistance » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:31 am

i agree. The venues in chicago are hit and miss though. Depends on who's doing the show.

i hate the aragon ballroom with a passion. come to think of it, i don't like big rooms. long live bar shows.

w_
pushin' record
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 10:09 am

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by w_ » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:33 am

I saw Beck on the Midnite Vultures tour at the Aragon... boy did that sound like shit. Synth sounds barely audible, bass way too loud and very muddy. That place really does suck.

User avatar
thunderboy
buyin' a studio
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:53 am
Location: ROC, NY, USA

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by thunderboy » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:20 pm

I saw the same Beck tour at Radio City Music Hall - row 40, ten rows or so in front of FOH.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a bass player and I don't fear the kick drum...but this shit was uncomfortable.

jt
"most toreadors worth a damn are circumcized."
- Discs of Tron

User avatar
joeysimms
ears didn't survive the freeze
Posts: 3838
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:10 am

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by joeysimms » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:28 pm

You'd think that the FOH people could take some sort of measurement of a few frequencies and compare the difference in an empty hall vs. a hall diffused by 10,000 bodies and make adjustments. It makes no sense to have the bass and low mids so loud in an effort to have the nosebleed sets "feel it" when the folks who paid for good seats are sitting there with earplugs in, getting nauseous, and listening to the chairs rattle.
beware bee wear

AstroDan
george martin
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 12:07 pm
Location: Avoca, Arkansas

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by AstroDan » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:27 pm

9 out of 10 club FOH personnel believe rock shows should sound like FM radio through a Voltron ghetto blaster...in your BRAIN.
"I have always tried to present myself as the type of person who enjoys watching dudes fight other dudes with iron claws."

User avatar
JohnDavisNYC
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3035
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: crooklyn, ny
Contact:

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by JohnDavisNYC » Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:35 pm

only big show i've ever seen that sounded really good was radiohead. saw them twice this summer, in boston and at madison square garden, and the sound was perfect. but their foh guy is pretty amazing... does peter gabriel, too. mixes were absolutely perfect. amazing drum sounds. using beta 91s as room mics on the drums, 2 feet in front of the kit on either side down low, as well as KSM44s in the same general position but at cymbal height. the sounds were truly record quality, i felt. nice LDCs all over, on some of the guitar amps, etc. AT4060 on Ed Obrien's VOX and a 4033 (i think... ) on his Mesa. a few 609s, some 57s... all in all, amazing soun.

j
i like to make music with music and stuff and things.

http://www.thebunkerstudio.com/

norton
buyin' a studio
Posts: 839
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:42 pm
Location: minneapolis

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by norton » Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:53 pm

so it's not just me.... allright.


usually, i can grin and bear the bass heavy slop at a show, but this was way beyond heavy... and to make it even worse, i caught the sound guy leaving his board and checking out how things sounded toward the front etc.

so he's got no damn excuse.


so are the same folks that run the super smashed over compressed cd's controlling our live sound too?

damn.

double damn.

norton
buyin' a studio
Posts: 839
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:42 pm
Location: minneapolis

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by norton » Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:56 pm

so it's not just me.... allright.


usually, i can grin and bear the bass heavy slop at a show, but this was way beyond heavy... and to make it even worse, i caught the sound guy leaving his board and checking out how things sounded toward the front etc.

so he's got no damn excuse.


so are the same folks that run the super smashed over compressed cd's controlling our live sound too?

damn.

double damn.

llmonty
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 10:17 am
Location: richmond, va

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by llmonty » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:30 am

whew, i am glad i am not the only one -- sometimes i feel like i am getting old, going to shows and actually getting physcially sick from the amount of bass. like it feels like my insides are just disintegrating. not rock and roll at all. and what is so strange to me is, most people -- don't they want to hear the vocals? you know, us musician/engineer types like to hear the other stuff too - but the general public, they want to hear the vocals and guitars, and usually all they hear is kick and muddy bass.

this gets me thinking about job opportunities - as the home recording marke eats into recording studios - doesn't it seem like there is an opp for really talented foh people? i mean, the lifestyle is shit, and the pay is crap, but it does seem like an area that could stand a sea change in quality.

do club owners (i guess if it costs them) and fans not care?
richmond is a really cool town - supafuzz

littlebrothersclothes
pushin' record
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 1:34 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by littlebrothersclothes » Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:52 pm

It's definitely not just the *big* venues. Last night I played at a small/medium-sized club in SF, and (thankyoutweakedoutsoundman) all you could hear onstage was a booming kick drum. (And, sure enough, on the recording I made, the bass & drums are huge, while the guitar & keyboard are barely audible, and when one is audible, the other usually isn't.)

Doug

User avatar
spectralgrey
gettin' sounds
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:32 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by spectralgrey » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:37 pm

I saw Air last night in Milwaukee and felt the same way. It was a good concert, but it could have been a mind blowing concert if the sound had been run well. It seems these venues don't understand that there are people that go to these concerts to hear music, not just party in a loud room with lots of people. It's like they've never heard of dynamics.

User avatar
EasyGo
buyin' a studio
Posts: 834
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 10:42 pm
Location: Culver, IN

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by EasyGo » Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:57 am

I saw em at the Riviera, which I have to say, the sound was better than previous concerts I've seen there (Jesus and Mary Chain/Spiritualized/Sonic Youth/Matthew Sweet), but the room sound still presents issues. It's got a huge fucking reverb (you can clearly hear verb tails off the kick drum), and the room really amplifies the bass.

User avatar
digital19
alignin' 24-trk
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:05 am
Location: Kansas City, USA

Re: AIR foh fiasco

Post by digital19 » Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:04 pm

Wow... I saw Air last night and I was blown away by the sound quality. It was by far the best mixed show I've seen in Kansas City. Maybe once or twice they let things get too loud, but all in all you could see and hear everything being played.

Could be the venue, here it was at the Uptown Theatre, which is a smaller place, really cool acoustics even without amplification.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests