The Hubris! Bush must go. Yesterday.

[bejeeber]

The same white men from the same elite schools and the same money. It's all the same if you ask me. The good ol' boys.

Like I'm talking to my liberal friends asking them why It's John and John on the ticket instead of Jamal and Samantha, or Tat and Aretha. Their response: we need to have real contenders against Bush. Liberals my ass.

Democracy is a scam. There is no such thing.

So you disapprove of all the candidates for their ethnic background, education and gender. I'm sure you have your reasons, but the differences between the 2 tickets and how they will deal with the issues are MAJOR. Remember that thing called the isssues? Do you think there would've been no difference between Bush and Gore because they have similar backgrounds? Would Gore have attacked Iraq? No. Vacationed excessively and ignored the Bin Laden threat? No. Initiated an all out federal assault on the environment? No. Ignored kyoto? Obviously not. Do these things mean anything to you or is it really just all about how the candidates look on the TV, so forget the issues? Sigh.

[bejeeber]

The thing is, how different has it ever been?

Significantly different, which is why Bush has been so busy rolling back and counteracting any progressive actions taken by Clinton.

Really, we didn't always have a moronic puppet of Cheney in the white house.

[DUC]

The same white men from the same elite schools and the same money. It's all the same if you ask me. The good ol' boys.

Like I'm talking to my liberal friends asking them why It's John and John on the ticket instead of Jamal and Samantha, or Tat and Aretha. Their response: we need to have real contenders against Bush. Liberals my ass.

Democracy is a scam. There is no such thing.

So you disapprove of all the candidates for their ethnic background, education and gender. I'm sure you have your reasons, but the differences between the 2 tickets and how they will deal with the issues are MAJOR. Remember that thing called the isssues? Do you think there would've been no difference between Bush and Gore because they have similar backgrounds? Would Gore have attacked Iraq? No. Vacationed excessively and ignored the Bin Laden threat? No. Initiated an all out federal assault on the environment? No. Ignored kyoto? Obviously not. Do these things mean anything to you or is it really just all about how the candidates look on the TV, so forget the issues? Sigh.

Issues matter, but I don't have any confidence and trust in the same good ol' boys club. It's like your bosses at work. They can talk all they want about how the corporation cares for you, but in the end it's all bullshit. How naive can you be?

[bejeeber]

Issues matter, but I don't have any confidence and trust in the same good ol' boys club.

One candidate was an active member of Vietnam Vets against the war and a dedicated protester.

One was a drunken frat boy and major Vietnam War supporter (as long as someone else was fighting).

Both have carried on along these lines ever since, very opposed to each other on most major issues. They so obviously don't belong to the same club at all when it comes down to how as president they'd affect our lives and world affairs.

[DUC]

Issues matter, but I don't have any confidence and trust in the same good ol' boys club.

One candidate was an active member of Vietnam Vets against the war and a dedicated protester.

One was a drunken frat boy and major Vietnam War supporter (as long as someone else was fighting).

Both have carried on along these lines ever since, very opposed to each other on most major issues. They so obviously don't belong to the same club at all when it comes down to how as president they'd affect our lives and world affairs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kerry gun down a bunch of women and children when he was touring my country?

You know their records are made up by aids and promoters. How can we know what they really are like? It's all contrived and lies. It's just that they're so sophisticated now.

[TrumpsHair]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kerry gun down a bunch of women and children when he was touring my country?

What the hell are you talking about? That's a very Bush-like thing to throw out there. He did kill a guy who was firing at their swift boat. He ran him down when they pulled to the shore and killed him, seeing his face as he did it. He saved the lives of all those on his swift boat.

C'mon, let's hear some more Bushy fabrications and propaganda.

[DUC]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kerry gun down a bunch of women and children when he was touring my country?

What the hell are you talking about? That's a very Bush-like thing to throw out there. He did kill a guy who was firing at their swift boat. He ran him down when they pulled to the shore and killed him, seeing his face as he did it. He saved the lives of all those on his swift boat.

C'mon, let's hear some more Bushy fabrications and propaganda.

Bushy fabrications? I'm a politcal atheist. That's just what I heard on the streets.

[Randy]

Islamic culture has not has a Reformation, it has not had and Enlightenment. These values we consider fundamental to human dignity are foreign to most of them.

Mark, I am really sorry to hear you saying this stuff. As far as "Reformation" and "Enlightenment," you could say that Muslim culture had those long before Christianity developed into a world religion.

So, your line of reasoning can only mean that Catholics and Jews are backward and should be re-educated.

Also, trying to draw paralells on who's historical timeline is more "modern" is simply ridiculous. Christians have always had their whackos calling for the complete annihilation of some other race of people-- ie. Hitler. Or semi-whackos trying to convert the world to their beliefs.

The majority of Muslims are just as modern and thoughtful as you and I. Somehow, I happen to know a lot of people who happen to have been brought up in the Muslim faith, and among them are two peace activists, a graphic designer, a cop, a PHD in mathematics who works for a major pharmaceutical company, a public health activist... you get the idea. These are all people active in their faith and all who view thier whackos with the same amount of disdain that I view mine.

Please find a way to educate yourself. Hook up with an anti-racism group, do some research, anything.

[andrew embassy]

Christians have always had their whackos calling for the complete annihilation of some other race of people-- ie. Hitler. Or semi-whackos trying to convert the world to their beliefs.

Hitler was no friend to Christianity, nor did he identify himself as a Christian. The churches in Germany struggled to maintain the status quo, and in doing so, weren't a top priority for Hitler to destroy, but they were on the list.

The majority of Muslims are just as modern and thoughtful as you and I. Somehow, I happen to know a lot of people who happen to have been brought up in the Muslim faith, and among them are two peace activists, a graphic designer, a cop, a PHD in mathematics who works for a major pharmaceutical company, a public health activist... you get the idea. These are all people active in their faith and all who view thier whackos with the same amount of disdain that I view mine.

+1

[Randy]

Andrew--
You are right about the Hitler stuff, my bad. The Roman Catholic actions surrounding the nazis sorta got me confused, but you are right, Hitler would have eventually gone after them, too. He certainly used christian concepts to persecute the Jews, though.

[joeysimms]

Nothing I've heard Kerry or Edwards say has impressed one bit. They both supported the iraq invasion, they both take heavy contributions from multinational corporations.. Look at it this way: When a republican OR democrat wins, both sides win. Because their interests and well-being come first.

[ottokbre]

Polyarchy 2004!

[Mark67]

The majority of Muslims are just as modern and thoughtful as you and I. Somehow, I happen to know a lot of people who happen to have been brought up in the Muslim faith, and among them are two peace activists, a graphic designer, a cop, a PHD in mathematics who works for a major pharmaceutical company, a public health activist... you get the idea. These are all people active in their faith and all who view thier whackos with the same amount of disdain that I view mine.

Please find a way to educate yourself. Hook up with an anti-racism group, do some research, anything.

Randy, you say this like it's some great revelation to me. I am an urban kid. I grew up around all kinds, and I have yet to meet a Muslim who wasn't an accomplished, thoughtful human being (though a few had some pretty scary conspiracy theories involving the ol' Jewish world domination bit). My guess is you are young, idealistic, and adopt the "why can't we all get along" philosophy. That's sweet, but it is you who does not get the point.

Perhaps if you educated yourself, you would realize there is a great deal of difference between the Muslim who opts for the freedom this country offers and the laws that secure this freedom, and those who choose to live under Sharia (Koranic Law). Yeah, once upon a time Christians were bad bad people--then we had a Reformation, an Enlightenment, which compartmentalized religion and separated Church and State and brought about the uplifting and freedom of people everywhere (simplistic--there were other factors too). It has been a long time since people were slaughtered in the name of Christ (and Hitler was not a Christian). People are being slaughtered in the name of Allah even as you read this. Get the diff?

Take Iran--a nation that still looks quite modern and up until the Ayotollah took over would have stepped up from third world status. Many Iranians--educated, worldly people--loathe, seethe with anger over the oppression the Mullahs have brought. If you cared about these people, or any of the Muslim people of the world you would admit that we ALL need to stand up and fight Islamicism.

I'm not saying the U.S. doesn't have a history of foreign policy mistakes (including the Shah in Iran). But we aren't doing anyone any favors by looking the other way, or by trying to understand "why did they fly those planes into our buildings? Why did they blow up those trains? What did we do wrong?" Guess what? They were doing that stufff before Iraq, and they'll be doing it after we get out of Iraq.