so... i'm not gonna vote.

[dirty]

Wing: you seem like a nice guy, so please don't be offended but...

That's just dumb. Not voting for any reason is dumb, but especially in this case: You know you want a change from the current leadership, yet you don't want to actually exercise your ability to affect that change. I don't think you're dumb, I just think you need to re-think this. And if you disagree, well, fine.

As for whoever said there is no difference between the Democrats and Republicans, PLEASE do some research before you say things like that. That is blatantly false, and you do a lot voters a great disservice by putting that nonsense in their heads. While it is true that the parties' machines have some striking similarities, I will now list all the issues I can think of off the top of my head on which there is a clear, important difference between the two:

Taxation
Abortion
Environmental Protection
Support for the working class
Civil Rights
Strict construction (Constitutional interpretation by federal courts)
the validity of the United Nations
Corporate governance/regulation vs. self-policing
the value of public education
Healthcare (this has been true since at least the 1940's)

and on and on...

Regardless of your position on any of those issues, there is an undeniable difference between the two major parties on every one. You can look it up!

[aurelialuz]

awesome dude! being ignorant and complacent RULZ!!! YEAH!!!

KICK ASS!! APATHY! ALL RIGHT!

seriously. who gives a fuck? you can't change anything. it'll be this way forever. and voting doesn't do shit, cause all the dudes are the same anyway. this country is fucked, so why even attempt to change it? it won't affect your life or your kid's, or your kid's kids. ESPECIALLY the environment. who gives a shit about the planet, we're all gonna be dead in 70 years anyway. might as well turn and burn motherfuckers.

i'd love to see what non-voters think of elections after a year in sudan.

[penelec]

There oughta be some kind of receipt one brings back from the booth that allows one to bitch after the election. No vote = no opinion.

And yeah, I include those for whom no vote is a vote. Their lack of vote signifies the same thing their lack of comment in political debate will signifiy. I'm voting not because I want a President who serves my needs or who looks like me -- I've given up on that -- but because skateboarding taught me you can make tactical use of the shit spawned by mediocrity.

Think I'm nuts? I was skating the other day, thinking how thoughtful it was that tons of money was watsed constructing vast tracts of cement that nofuckingbody walks on. Curbs and rails and ledges and banks and little square metal boxes with nary a hangup nor crack. And then I slammed and sat there for a while analogizing. We make use of what we can. It's like de Certeau said: let the big ol' strategies churn their bureaucratic gears; us rodents of the underclass will live well off the scraps. Let the demopublicans churn; but let the Democrats win, because those scraps don't fall to Halliburton and Diebold. Those scraps, paltry might they be, fall to schools, elder care, health plans, and children.

My mantra has always been fuck the greedy, and if I can do it by giving up a half-an-hour at the polls, well, I've wasted more time on an unsatisfying shit. Wing, I'm just saying. No one will notice your non-vote. But if you do vote, mebbe for Kucinich or Nader, you've had a little hand in something.

(Wipes tears off keyboard.)










(Wait, no, that was bong water.)

[dirty]

One more thing:

Nader's a tool.

[Mr. Dipity]

One more thing:

Nader's a tool.

Sure, but that's irrelevant - he's never getting into office, and a vote for him is a big 'fuck-you' that might make the powers that be pay attention.

[dirty]

Actually, no. A vote for him is a vote for Bush.

However, a vote for Dean and/or Kucinich in the primary, like the one I cast, actually did force the party at large to the left on a particular issue. (The war.)

Within weeks of Dean's emergence, DNC chief Terry McAuliffe, who I think everyone could agree is a slimeball, was on CNN declaring his misgivings about the war. That was a major coup, and ironically, it is more than Nader has accomplished in either of his campaigns.

Also, let's be serious. Nader in 2000 was a campaign. This is a farce. 2000 was, though terrible, a forgivable mistake. This is an outright betrayal by the man who was once the single greatest symbol of the good liberalism can accomplish in the world. For me anyway, it's very sad.

[edited for spelling.]

[penelec]

I hear you, Dirty, but Nader wants people to get mad. His aim is to cause dissent (primarily from apathy) and to piss people off enough that they actually will vote. Even if they vote out of fear that someone is going to vote for him.

He's got the big picture in mind, and his aim, oddly, is totally in line with Wing's idea. What's the fucking point of a two party system if both parties are in the pocket of corporate America (as Chomsky has said)? From a political historical viewpoint, Nader's doing the right thing, because people should never let poor systems (and their inherent flaws) delimit the way they run government. If a third party player negates the second party player, you don't really have a functional democracy. Fuckin' A, Canada can handle three parties. Why can't we?

[bad_dude_69]

smell your own complacence.

[bad_dude_69]

Fuckin' A, Canada can handle three parties. Why can't we?

i think this goes back to there never being a significant socialist movement in the us, thus the R's and the D's have made up the foundation from the get go.

[Mr. Dipity]

Actually, no. A vote for him is a vote for Bush.

Actually no. A vote for him in a swing state is a vote for Bush. Otherwise, it's a vote for Nader.

At this point, I'm probably going to vote for a 3rd party candidate. I live in California.

My girlfriend has signed up to fly to a swing state the weekend before the election and help convince people to go and vote.

[bad_dude_69]

My girlfriend has signed up to fly to a swing state the weekend before the election and help convince people to go and vote.

sweet, that's hardcore -- and cool.

[Mr. Dipity]

My girlfriend has signed up to fly to a swing state the weekend before the election and help convince people to go and vote.

sweet, that's hardcore -- and cool.

Yes it is, and so is she. Moveon.org is setting it up. She's using frequent flier miles.

I'd go with her, but I just start a fight or something. Still, if they are in hospital, they can't vote.

[swingdoc]

. Yes, I said 2nd, because the demopublicans are, as far as overall differences, just 2 sides of the same genral principles..

hehe demopublicans...good one.

mopubs..

mopu..

mo...pooo..

guttural sound association.

[CyberSpy]

"No vote = no opinion"

Mmmm, nope, i'm pretty sure I can have an opinion whenever i want. Infact i'm having quite a few of them at this very moment.

What if you vote, and end up hating the new guy even more. Then you're responsible for it. Meanwhile i can sit at home and bitch about the problem that you created.

[SpockPicasso]

I hate that we don't seem to be able to break out of a two-party system. I hate even more that disgust/indifference at the presidential choices trickles down through the whole voting process so that people, like Wing and many others, think that the whole voting process is pointless.

November 2 is not just about the presidential election! It's about state and local elections, bond issues, school boards, etc etc. It's really easy to feel like your vote for president doesn't make much difference. Local government probably has a much more direct impact on your day to day life.

Take 20 minutes to read the sample ballot thing. Even if you don't vote for president, or congress, I bet there's at least one issue on your local ballot that you'll have an opinion on. Take another 20 minutes or so and go to the poll and vote.

If you don't, you're a big weenie.

-sp