Re: English as a Major...

wing · Post by **wing** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:13 am

I was talking to my girlfriend yesterday about the idea of being an English major. Her response: "You don't even read that many books!" She explained that most people she knows majoring in english are total book worms. It's true-- I don't read a lot of books. I mean, I do read them, just not a new one every week. I read short stories and poetry more than anything, haha.

So the questions I have are...

1) Do I have to be a total book worm to major in English? Since I'm not, is English probably not the thing for me (although I do enjoy writing, literature, etc.)? Would I be laughed out of the program by all the students and professors for not already knowing the complete works of Shakespeare, Twain, etc. as it is?

2) I know every school is different, but what kind of work load is it? Would I be reading a new novel/large book every week or so?

3) Am I crazy in thinking English might be something that would be applicable to every area of life and my interests, rather than focusing in on just one specific area/interest?

Please don't take this as a whine or complaint, that I don't like reading. If anyone knows me, the reason I don't read ALL the time, the reason I'm not a book worm, is not because I have no interest in literature or because I dislike reading, but rather because I have so many other things to do. I couldn't afford the time to read books ALL the time... (this winter break is great because I finally get to read a 500 pg. Murakami book, something I've put off due to lack of time!)

Now again, it's not that I don't want to read, or that I don't like it... it's just that I enjoy creating even more. Take music for example: I love listening to music, I love finding new bands and listening to albums again and again. BUT, nothing ever beats actually getting behind the guitar or drumset and creating music. Same with books and all that. Though I love "listening" to books, I love even more to write. I also like to take out some time to design and draw... etc. I really like to create. But it doesn't mean I don't enjoy the works of others... I would just say the ratio of absorbing to creating is 1:3... though that number I just pulled straight out of my ass when I was in the bathroom.

Anyway. Any more input? Is there a different type of major I should maybe be considering? Any ideas and suggestions are totally welcome... remember, I'm still technically undecided!

Dr. Sausage · Post by **Dr. Sausage** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:00 pm

unless you want to teach it I don't know what else you can do with an english degree. Regardless, it's been shown that 60% or something end up doing jobs that their major wasn't, so do what you want to do.

joeysimms · Post by **joeysimms** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:07 pm

Why are you even in school?

w_ · Post by w_ » Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:31 pm

wing wrote: 1) Do I have to be a total book worm to major in English? Since I'm not, is English probably not the thing for me (although I do enjoy writing, literature, etc.)? Would I be laughed out of the program by all the students and professors for not already knowing the complete works of Shakespeare, Twain, etc. as it is?

No and No. Though, depending on the school and how pretentious the students are, you may be ridiculed a bit for not being familiar with the basics. Most likely not though. As for being a bookworm, see #2.

wing wrote:2) I know every school is different, but what kind of work load is it? Would I be reading a new novel/large book every week or so?

I went to one of the "best"/most prestigious English/Creative Writing schools in the country and can tell you my workload was very very heavy, though I took all of the English courses I had to take at in order to acquire a degree in a short amount of time so I could focus on my minor (Journalism). Anyway, to give you an idea, I took 18 hours a semester, but let's assume you will take the standard of 15 or so. The average where I went to school was about 7 books per semester per course. Some more, some a little less. I can say that, at the beginning of the week, I would have to map out my reading so I could stay caught up, and often it was 100-150 pages per night. So I had that on top of writing papers, research, other classes, etc. So, what I'm saying is, being a bookworm will certainly help as if you get in a situation like this it won't seem like so much "work."

wing wrote:3) Am I crazy in thinking English might be something that would be applicable to every area of life and my interests, rather than focusing in on just one specific area/interest?

I would say you should really consider minoring in English and majoring in something else. At the very least, compliment your English degree with a minor or two. or consider a double major. Definitely do NOT just major in English or you will regret it when you are trying to find a job. Unless, that is, you have plans to teach someday.

Fieryjack · Post by **Fieryjack** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:44 pm

You don't have to have any knowledge of literature or books going in (although as Wes9 pointed out, you will get pretentious teachers, etc. who think they're hot shit because they know what Captain Ahab was thinking and you don't). But if you choose English as a major, be ready to drink books.....one book a week during semester, more towards exams, etc.

One nice thing about English/literature is that it isn't as "fact" driven as other majors such as Econ/poli-sci, etc. There is A LOT of room for opinion./criticism and your grades are based on your ability to analyze and develop your own opinions more than being "right or wrong".

As Wes9 wrote, writing a ton of papers too (mostly towards the end of semester). Keep in mind though, this is while others are studying statistics or some other nightmare subject. God forbid.

it's just that I enjoy creating even more. Take music for example: I love listening to music, I love finding new bands and listening to albums again and again.

Books are like Music; except you have to read a lot of them to figure out what you like (just like listening to music). You might find you like reading books as much as listening to music. You're really developing another sensory perception (and discipline), using your imagination differently than you're used to.

English is a major that is applicable to MANY areas of interest....and just because you are an English major doesn't mean you're limited to teaching. You can get into advertising, law, public relations, journalism, corporate communications. You're not really limited.....

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 pm

Fieryjack wrote:English is a major that is applicable to MANY areas of interest....and just because you are an English major doesn't mean you're limited to teaching. You can get into advertising, law, public relations, journalism, corporate communications. You're not really limited.....

Totally agree. If you aren't absolutely sure of where you want to end up after college, an English major is a great place to start. For whatever you do, having a command of the language ain't never gonna hurt ya.

Plus, it's the best course of study to give you exposure to the things you might want to do. One thing a teacher said to me was that undergrad is for getting a general knowlege about the world, and you should follow your interests and keep it flexible. If you don't know where you are going, you should go with what you like most.

or something like that...

wardshorsehead · Post by **wardshorsehead** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:28 pm

1) Do I have to be a total book worm to major in English? Since I'm not, is English probably not the thing for me (although I do enjoy writing, literature, etc.)? Would I be laughed out of the program by all the students and professors for not already knowing the complete works of Shakespeare, Twain, etc. as it is?

no. i had a pretty solid background in american literature, but other than a superficial pass at brit lit and the bard in high school, i hadn't read anything before college.

2) I know every school is different, but what kind of work load is it? Would I be reading a new novel/large book every week or so?

it varies on the classes. lit classes = large load. higher level lit classes = less load, greater depth. writing classes may or may not have an extensive reading component. plus, even heady novels are a walk in the park compared to an organic chem class. i never felt overwhelmed, but at times i had to read my ass off. generally as a byproduct of my own procrastination and poor time management.

3) Am I crazy in thinking English might be something that would be applicable to every area of life and my interests, rather than focusing in on just one specific area/interest?

not at all. you are all about communication...writing, art, music, photography.

unless you want to teach it I don't know what else you can do with an english degree.

of all my friends who have english degrees, i'm the only one teaching. their occupations include: corporate trainer, sales manager, non-profit director, museum curator, grant writer, journalist (with a pulitzer at that!), graphic artist, ad copywriter, musician, technical writer, magazine editor, marketing director, project manager, and attorney. the only one who has any education outside of an english degree (albeit, some have their MA or MFA in english) is the attorny with a JD. they all still consider it to have been the best foundation for what they do today.

we are a communication and information based society. this characteristic is continuing to grow and evolve.

rest assured wing, that your english degree and an ounce of ambition will garner you more than the retail clerk / coffee barista jobs that others may warn you of.

frank

wing · Post by **wing** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:35 am

Thanks for the input everyone!

So I went to the school I'm considering (since I really intend to stay in the city for now): University of Houston. They have one of the top creative writing programs in the country (#2 behind Iowa) and with that, a pretty good English department overall from what I've been told.

Here is the dept's website: http://www.class.uh.edu/English/

Anyway, So I went to the dept office, asking for brochures, information, and perhaps to schedule an appointment with an advisor. When I asked about English, they said "which concentration?" ... to which I said "uh, whatever it is to 'Major in English' or just straight English I guess...?"

this is where I got confused. the front desk person said "do you mean literature? You can do literature, creative writing, or linguistics." confusing. So is the degree all of you talk about literature?

Now, I want to write more than anything. I love fiction and poetry. But I've been told that an undergrad degree in creative writing is seen as "wishy-washy," and straight-up English is the way to go. But in this case, is that "literature"? And if so, how is THAT not at all wishy-washy, or not as much as creative writing? I say that, because it seems that studying books is no more marketable as a degree and respectable than learning to write well... they seem to be in the same class. And you guys have seen what I've said: that though I love "listening" to books, more than anything I want to create. Is it a bad thing to undergrad in creative writing?

Is literature really the same as the English all of you have been talking about? I mean, I hoped it focused more on the actual language and writing well, etc. I'm just confused how literature is the same thing, and if it is how it is seen as a more respectable degree than creative writing... aren't they essentially the same type of major, just one is more reading and the other is more writing (which I want to do more anyway)?

Here is a quote on it from their website:

"While this concentration includes a focus on traditional British and American literature, the degree is flexible enough to allow students to explore a wide range of literary studies, including Mexican American Literature, African American Literature Postcolonial Literature and Gay/Lesbian Literature."

joeysimms wrote:Why are you even in school?

to party and get chicks and get wasted on friday nights.

what do you think? because i enjoy school and i enjoy learning.

djimbe · Post by **djimbe** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:01 am

Wing, I can't answer any of your specific questions about English as a major (I'm a mechanical engineer, and as such, am language and spelling impaired...), but you seem like you're at the perfect crossroad to look into a particular field that would allow you to write, create, and be involved in music. That field is Entertainment Law. Seriously. You know how hard it is to find a good entertainment lawyer that doesn't charge $300/hour? Or a good entertainment lawyer period? I bet if you asked the folks at U of Houston, they could help you map out a school plan that would get you an undergrad degree that would be easily applicable to later persuing a Law degree. The English Dept. is a great place to start. You'd likely have to spend some time teaching after your undergrad degree (you like kids, I know...) and take night classes for Law. I know a couple of lawyers who did this. Elementary school teachers are in short supply, so it may not be hard to find work to support further education. You're a young guy...take a long view of your life. It may not be for you, but give it some thought...

Fieryjack · Post by **Fieryjack** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:09 am

Wing,

I could be wrong on this, but here's my take on the different "english" programs available:

- Linguistics is more specialized and might lock you into a career in academia.

- Creative writing may not give you the broad background and understanding that literature would. It coudl very well be wishy washy and I wouldn't touch it unless you KNOW this is what you want to do or unless you have access to some kick-ass writer as his protege or something.

- Literature would expose you a million other writers....Russian, French, American, English, etc. etc.

I think literature is the most useful because if you understand how other writers think/write, this would be reflected in your own work. In most art fields (including music), imitation is the best way to learn.

Hell, what do I know.

bobbydj · Post by **bobbydj** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:53 am

Fieryjack wrote:I think literature is the most useful because if you understand how other writers think/write, this would be reflected in your own work. In most art fields (including music), imitation is the best way to learn.

Yep. I think people who pick up a pen before reading (i.e. studying, understanding, constructively criticising) some serious, heavy shit should have their teeth pulled out with a pair of Victorian pliers. Ok, ok - too harsh. Edwardian pliers. There's just too many BS books in this world that seem to betray the shallowness of thought of the author. Get down and dirty with the archives. That's my bloody maxim.

joeysimms · Post by **joeysimms** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:34 am

bobbydj wrote: Yep. I think people who pick up a pen before reading (i.e. studying, understanding, constructively criticising) some serious, heavy shit should have their teeth pulled out with a pair of Victorian pliers. Ok, ok - too harsh. Edwardian pliers. There's just too many BS books in this world that seem to betray the shallowness of thought of the author. Get down and dirty with the archives. That's my bloody maxim.

You're joking, yes?

I think everyone should pick up a pen and get busy, you can go back and see how others did it later.

wing wrote:
joeysimms wrote:
Why are you even in school?

to party and get chicks and get wasted on friday nights.

what do you think? because i enjoy school and i enjoy learning.

Yeah but what career are you seeking with an english or literature degree? If you want to read and write then read and write.

wing · Post by **wing** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:35 am

the CW program is actually half literature... just not as much focus on it. maybe i could major in both-- since they have the same core, it'd only really be a few extra classes!

bobbydj · Post by **bobbydj** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:54 am

joeysimms wrote:
bobbydj wrote: Yep. I think people who pick up a pen before reading (i.e. studying, understanding, constructively criticising) some serious, heavy shit should have their teeth pulled out with a pair of Victorian pliers. Ok, ok - too harsh. Edwardian pliers. There's just too many BS books in this world that seem to betray the shallowness of thought of the author. Get down and dirty with the archives. That's my bloody maxim.
You're joking, yes?

I think everyone should pick up a pen and get busy, you can go back and see how others did it later.

No tom. Not everyone. There are a lot of people out there who's stories will never be heard, and God knows they fucking need to be heard. And for these people, what I said needs qualifying. But with that caveat in place I'm standing by what I said 100%. Some voices are over-represented, and I wield pliers at those fuckers. That's all I'm saying here on this thread.

craigloom · Post by **craigloom** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:24 am

Yeah, I'm a little bit in agreement with Rob on this one. I have a BFA in Creative Writing, Lit. and Publishing. I think i went to the only school you can actually get a BFA in writing (as opposed to a BA in English with a concentration in c. writing). Whatever. Point is, I took a lot of creative writing classes and seminars where there were several people who just wrote and obviously did not read much. Fantasy garbage, adolescent horror, self absorbed litanies, didactic tirades. Usually, their egos made up for their lack of exposure to literature. I'm not saying I was superior or anything like that...It's just that it was obvious who actually read. It would have done them a great service. I guess the same point applies to music as well. The more you seek out good music, the more rounded out and meaningful your own music will be, IMO.

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