A Christian Minister Speaks Out

[rhythm ranch]

A Christian Minister Speaks Out with Clarity and Conviction

Dr. Robin Meyers' Speech to students at OK University:

As some of you know, I am minister of Mayflower Congregational Church in Oklahoma City, and professor of Rhetoric at Oklahoma City University. But you would most likely have encountered me on the pages of the Oklahoma Gazette, where I have been a columnist for six years, and hold the record for the most number of angry letters to the editor.

Tonight, I join ranks of those who are angry, because I have watched as the faith I love has been taken over by fundamentalists who claim to speak for Jesus, but whose actions are anything but Christian.

We've heard a lot lately about so-called "moral values" as having swung the election to President Bush. Well, I'm a great believer in moral values, but we need to have a discussion, all over this country, about exactly what constitutes a moral value -- I mean what are we talking about? Because we don't get to make them up as we go along, especially not if we are people of faith. We have an inherited tradition of what is right and wrong, and moral is as moral does.

Let me give you just a few of the reasons why I take issue with those in power who claim moral values are on their side:

A. When you start a war on false pretenses, and then act as if your deceptions are justified because you are doing God's will, and that your critics are either unpatriotic or lacking in faith, there are some of us who have given our lives to teaching and preaching the faith who believe that this is not only not moral, but immoral.

B. When you live in a country that has established international rules for waging a just war, build the United Nations on your own soil to enforce them, and then arrogantly break the very rules you set down for the rest of the world, you are doing something immoral.

C. When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your life, and yet fail to acknowledge that your policies ignore his essential teaching, or turn them on their head (you know, Sermon on the Mount stuff like that we must never return violence for violence and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword), you are doing something immoral.

D. When you act as if the lives of Iraqi civilians are not as important as the lives of American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you are doing something immoral.

E. When you find a way to avoid combat in Vietnam, and then question the patriotism of someone who volunteered to fight, and came home a hero, you are doing something immoral.

F. When you ignore the fundamental teachings of the gospel, which says that the way the strong treat the weak is the ultimate ethical test, by giving tax breaks to the wealthiest among us so the strong will get stronger and the weak will get weaker, you are doing something immoral.

G. When you wink at the torture of prisoners, and deprive so-called "enemy combatants" of the rules of the Geneva Convention, which your own country helped to establish and insists that other countries follow, you are doing something immoral.

H. When you claim that the world can be divided up into the good guys and the evil doers, slice up your own nation into those who are with you, or with the terrorists -- and then launch a war which enriches your own friends and seizes control of the oil to which we are addicted, instead of helping us to kick the habit, you are doing
something immoral.

I. When you fail to veto a single spending bill, but ask us to pay for a war with no exit strategy and no end in sight, creating an enormous deficit that hangs like a great millstone around the necks of our children, you are doing something immoral.

J. When you cause most of the rest of the world to hate a country that was once the most loved country in the world, and act like it doesn't matter what others think of us, only what God thinks of you, you have done something immoral.

K. When you use hatred of homosexuals as a wedge issue to turn out record numbers of evangelical voters, and use the Constitution as a tool of discrimination, you are doing something immoral.

L. When you favor the death penalty, and yet claim to be a follower of Jesus - who said an eye for an eye was the old way, not the way of the kingdom - you are doing something immoral.

M. When you dismantle countless environmental laws designed to protect the earth, which is God's gift to us all, so that the corporations that bought you and paid for your favors will make higher profits while our children breathe dirty air and live in a toxic world, you have done something immoral. The earth belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton.

N. When you claim that our God is bigger than their God, and that our killing is righteous, while theirs is evil, we have begun to resemble the enemy we claim to be fighting, and that is immoral. We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.

O. When you tell people that you intend to run and govern as a "compassionate conservative," using the word which is the essence of all religious faith-compassion, and then show no compassion for anyone who disagrees with you, and no patience with those who cry to you for help, you are doing something immoral.

P. When you talk about Jesus constantly, who was a healer of the sick, but do nothing to make sure that anyone who is sick can go to see a doctor, even if she doesn't have a penny in her pocket, you are doing something immoral.

Q. When you put judges on the bench who are racist, and will set women back a hundred years, and when you surround yourself with preachers who say gays ought to be killed, you are doing something immoral.

I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm a Christian, I must be a supporter of President Bush, or that because I favor civil rights and gay rights I must not be a person of faith. I'm tired of people saying that I can't support the troops but oppose the war.

I heard that when I was your age--when the Vietnam War was raging. We knew that that war was wrong, and you know that this war is wrong?the only question is how many people are going to die before these make-believe Christians are removed from power?

This country is bankrupt. The war is morally bankrupt. The claim of this administration to be Christian is bankrupt. And the only people who can turn things around are people like you--young people who are just beginning to wake up to what is happening to them.

It's your country to take back. It's your faith to take back. It's your future to take back.

Don't be afraid to speak out. Don't back down when your friends begin to tell you that the cause is righteous and that the flag should be wrapped around the cross, while the rest of us keep our mouths shut. Real Christians take chances for peace. So do real Jews, and real Muslims, and real Hindus, and real Buddhists--so do all the faith traditions of the world at their heart believe one thing: life is precious.

Every human being is precious. Arrogance is the opposite of faith. Greed is the opposite of charity. And believing that one has never made a mistake is the mark of a deluded man, not a man of faith.

And war -- war is the greatest failure of the human race -- and thus the greatest failure of faith. There's an old rock and roll song, whose lyrics say it all:
War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

And what is the dream of the prophets? That we should study war no more, that we should beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks. Who would Jesus bomb, indeed? How many wars does it take to know that too many people have died? What if they gave a war and nobody came? Maybe one day we will find out.

[Ivon]

Interesting. He made some valid points. Is it posted online?

It's actions like those of our current president that I feel give Christianity a bad name. Whether you believe Jesus was a prophet, God's son or a revolutionary philospher, if you read what was actually recorded - what Jesus really said - You'll find he honored women, even hung out with a known prostitute...and he didn't pass judgement. He was definitely opposed to violence in any form. He emphasized the need to embrace those of different ethnic origin (the good samaritan story). He drove money changers out of the temple - didn't want religion to be a profitable venture.

Islam could be looked at in a similar way. There are a lot of muslims in the world who are engaged in violent activities...but the word, Islam actually means "peace". To me, it seems there are a few bad apples professing to represent Islam.

I could go on for a long time, but I guess what I'm trying to say is...there's nothing inherently wrong with religion. What's wrong is that people distort religion to fit and fulfill their own needs, agendas, et cetera. It's messed up. K, I'm done for now.

[wing]

"We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us."

Especially if he means the whole human race.

I think there are a lot more Christians like us out there... we just don't really have a voice and most people assume many things about us that are far from true.

[psychicoctopus]

"We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us."

Especially if he means the whole human race.

I think there are a lot more Christians like us out there... we just don't really have a voice and most people assume many things about us that are far from true.

then ya gotta make yourself heard, or else you're guilty by association. If more christians would make it known that they're opposed to the current administration's christian posturing, that would help pull out the rug of popular support from under their feet.

[rhythm ranch]

Is it posted online?

It was sent to me by a friend, but a search provided this link.

[Ivon]

Is it posted online?

It was sent to me by a friend, but a search provided this link.

Thank You.

[wing]

"We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us."

Especially if he means the whole human race.

I think there are a lot more Christians like us out there... we just don't really have a voice and most people assume many things about us that are far from true.

then ya gotta make yourself heard, or else you're guilty by association. If more christians would make it known that they're opposed to the current administration's christian posturing, that would help pull out the rug of popular support from under their feet.

yeah, maybe i could be the leader of the movement... hehehe

[foley]

I'd be a member of that club. I love Jesus and lose my lunch every time George Bush opens his mouth. I know we're supposed to pray for our enemies, but that one is just difficult for me.

Anyways, we're out here.

[b3groover]

Unfortunately the man is an anomaly.

[MichaelAlan]

I'm with wing. I even tried hard to like him for so long, and you've probably noticed I'm not much of a basher, but you just can't argue with hard facts. People are dying for no apparent reason. I can't say he's "not a Christian" i guess but i truly believe that you cannot become a succesfull politician and adhere to the teachings of Christ all along the way. Wing, do you consider yourself a "Christian"? or do you find yourself repulsed by modern Christian churches and thier practices, while trying to adhere to the beliefs that the Christian Bible teaches?


Mike

[Isolation]

wing's all about satan and poisoning apples...don't let his cute exterior fool you...

[high tek]

thats a really good speech.

its just too bad that for the people that NEED to hear it, will hold their hands to their ears and eyes while singing: la la la la la.

you know who you are..

[texlop]

It too bad things have to end up like this. If only Bush was interested more in the environment than filling his greedy pocket we would have hydrogen powered vehicles in our driveways and become an independant nation when it comes to fuel.

[wing]

wing's all about satan and poisoning apples...don't let his cute exterior fool you...

muwahah.

hahah.

MUUWAAHAWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[wing]

I'm with wing. I even tried hard to like him for so long, and you've probably noticed I'm not much of a basher, but you just can't argue with hard facts. People are dying for no apparent reason. I can't say he's "not a Christian" i guess but i truly believe that you cannot become a succesfull politician and adhere to the teachings of Christ all along the way. Wing, do you consider yourself a "Christian"? or do you find yourself repulsed by modern Christian churches and thier practices, while trying to adhere to the beliefs that the Christian Bible teaches?

Sure, well as a believer in Christ and his teachings and who has accepted his salvation, I would rightfully consider myself a "Christian", which stems from the name that the followers were given by the government from the actual time of Jesus. It literally means "little Christs," or followers of Christ.

I am repulsed by a lot of modern Christian churches, but I don't hate them. I know churches are made up of people, and people are sinners, so no church is without its faults. So I think as we are commanded to accept people with love, so are we to accept the Church-- to another, yet different degree. I don't believe this means we have to agree with the Church, or defend every Church on the grounds that they are "Church" so they must be good, or anything like that. But Christ said "when two or three come together in my name, there am I with them," so I take this to mean that while church is not perfect, the gathering together (be it full-fledged church or mere bible studies) is definitely something God wanted for us.

So while I may not agree with most Churches, and the fundamentalist movement is way way off course, and while I think many who are "saved" are almost as lost as those they claim to be "lost"... I definitely don't hate Church because of it. My theory is just find a Church that doesn't represent all this crap, and stick with it. I go to a Vietnamese Baptist Church, but they're not in the least very Baptist (they're hardly traditional), and there are a few white guys like myself and even blacks, hispanics, etc. that attend, so it's hardly a Vietnamese church. Sometimes we joke about renaming it to just "Church." Anyway, point is, I love the people, and I love the sermons. And while I do not agree with everyone there, nor do I agree with every point made or every sermon given, I still love and accept them all and enjoy my fellowship with them.

I think it's totally normal to not agree with everything you hear in Church, and if you do, you're probably not seeking very hard.

A few of the people there are pretty into Bush, but we never really talk about it much. I guess I don't really see the point in starting up an argument with them. One thing I always realize concerning that is the fact that this is Texas: lots of people, especially in the church, voted for and love Bush. These are all good people, I promise. They love God and they love their rights, their country, and people. So why on earth would they vote for Bush? Well, often times, in a place like this (Texas), people--especially the younger generation--kind of does what family does, and what friends do, and what it seems the Church supports. See, I don't think any of my bush-supporting friends actually think that they are supporting war or whatever, but just assume that since bush sounds the most Christian, he's the best choice. And that's where Bush has most of them fooled! So my point is-- the people I know in the church that support Bush I think just never did their homework, and don't really seek out much truth. Which is sad to me, because sometimes it makes me wonder how they found Christ intimately (you have to seek to find and be enriched, right?) and how they really find anything great in life. It's weird. So I just think people support Bush because he sounds Christian, but many don't actually think much about it.

Anyway. So yeah, I follow Christ, but I don't follow the Church. I disagree with the Church a lot. But I still love the Church, and the people within. I hope that answers your questions.