Sonic diff between large & small diaphragm mics

[mattyblacklove]

This is kind of a thinly veiled inexpensive SDC recommendation, by the way.

Seems like it's a pretty common practice to use large diaphragm condensers for vocals and small diaphragm condensers for things like acoustic instruments.

I've read somewhere (I think it was something associated with Earthworks mics) that the human ear is more similar to a small diaphragm condenser.

What exactly does a LDC do that a SDC doesn't? And does anyone commonly use a SDC for vocals?

[joel hamilton]

Small Diaphragms have better pulse response, meaning that the diaphragm comes to rest after being moved by a pulse of air, therefore they are tighter, and more accurate.

That is not always flattering for sources that require a combination of smoothing, and coddling frequency response, and transient response that starts "averaging" based on the diaphragms inability to make it back to a complete stop before being blasted again.

That is the grossly non-scientific way of looking at it, but the basic principles I believe to be correct.

[trashy]

Generally speaking SDC's are more accurate and handle higher spls, while large ldcs are less accurate (and generally more colored) and have lower self-noise.

Any mic can be used for anything... and often are, if you come by my place.

Check out Harvey Gerst's HUGE mic thread:
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showth ... adid=27030

[Tim Casey]

I noticed that my SDC doesn't have very deep bass response - not even deep enough for male vocals. However, the capsule's shape and the tiny diaphram (spelling?) seems to really make my acoustic guitar sound like what a recording of an acoustic guitar should sound like - without any eq or compression.

Just like a woofer and tweeter, the larger the diaphram, the lower the frequency response. But the larger diaphram has more mass and is less sensitive to low-level high-frequency vibrations.

I used to use my large-diaphram for everything, my only alternative being a Shure SM58. But I recently picked up a matched pair of Samson SDC mics to record a choir and subsequently tried them on my acoustic. WOW! I'm not usually overly impressed by these nuances, but this knocked my socks off. They don't sound all that hot for lead vocals, though - again, not enough male-vocal bass (maybe a rolloff at around 180 Hz).

As far as price goes, cheap condensor mics still sound great. In fact, someone I know who runs a pro studio with a cabinet full of mics says that you may actually prefer a $200 LDC to a $3000 Neumann LDC, especially if no one tells you which is which. They each sound different, to be sure, but it's a personal taste issue, not a quality issue.

[Tim Casey]

I noticed that my SDC doesn't have very deep bass response - not even deep enough for male vocals. However, the capsule's shape and the tiny diaphram (spelling?) seems to really make my acoustic guitar sound like what a recording of an acoustic guitar should sound like - without any eq or compression.

Just like a woofer and tweeter, the larger the diaphram, the lower the frequency response. But the larger diaphram has more mass and is less sensitive to low-level high-frequency vibrations.

I used to use my large-diaphram for everything, my only alternative being a Shure SM58. But I recently picked up a matched pair of Samson SDC mics to record a choir and subsequently tried them on my acoustic. WOW! I'm not usually overly impressed by these nuances, but this knocked my socks off. They don't sound all that hot for lead vocals, though - again, not enough male-vocal bass (maybe a rolloff at around 180 Hz).

As far as price goes, cheap condensor mics still sound great. In fact, someone I know who runs a pro studio with a cabinet full of mics says that you may actually prefer a $200 LDC to a $3000 Neumann LDC, especially if no one tells you which is which. They each sound different, to be sure, but it's a personal taste issue, not a quality issue.

[joel hamilton]

What small diaphragm are you using that doesnt have much low end?

Usually the "problem" is that they are TOO accurate in the high end, and if you are talking about an omni like an earthworks, or stapes, then you also do not get the proximity effect working in your favor.

I think the "problem" is that you are hearing too much high end, and though it seems like semantics, it is important to point out that an earthworks will reproduce frequencies, and be FLAT all the way to something like 5HZ.

The fact that it is flat to 5Hz is insane, and certainly willing to reproduce the low frequencies.

With microphones, the size of the diaphragm does not have anything to do with the frequencies it will reproduce. There are ten million other variables, but the size is not going to determine the frequency response. (this is assuming we are talking about microphones in production, and not some "theoretical" 17 inch diaphragm someone dreamed up...)

I have an old turner mic with a 2" diphragm that rolls off at about 200 Hz. I also have an earthworks TC30k with a 1/4" diaphragm that will reproduce down to 5Hz.

As far as sonic differences between the two types of microphone, you would have to specify WHICH ones, because even within the two categories there is as much variation as there are microphones made on earth...

[dokushoka]

BTW, a Tc30k makes an EXCELLENT kick drum mic, and I highly recommend singing into one sometime... You'll really learn about your voice =)

[timbaier]

I tried singing into a SDC once. Scarily accurate, it sent me immediately searching for an Ultra Large diaphragm condenser mic.

[spiral]

Another reason it may seem like bass isn't being reproduced is that the sensation of something having alot of bass comes from physically feeling it as well, so maybe in the room you are hearing it and feeling it but when you play it back on monitors they aren't creating the full body experience?

That was a long sentence.

[joel hamilton]

Spiral, that was almost as bad as my shitty, long winded run on sentences!

I think that is a good point though. Dont forget that what we do is give the illusion of HUGE, not actually just eating headroom at every channel....

[djslayerissick]

i sang into the drum overhead a couple months back - it was a SDC. it sounded good, but for some reason, i guess just popular belief and usual usage, i crossed it off in my mind as a vocal mic.

but i noticed more clarity in the high end and less bass (maybe not, just percived that b/c of the extra highs), but not as much 'edge' as like in the usual LDC. theres normally this chest voice buzz and throaty-ness in my voice. i have a naturally deep bass-baritone voice, and on top of that, i have tendency to let the tone fall back in my throat rather than outward toward my cheecks and face.

i'm gonna record with one of them soon. i'll give it a shot.

screams sound especially bad on a LDC - and i've tried many. that edge is nasty sounding. but an SM57 and that SCD didnt have that edge. we'll see.