Gear Design... Graduate School?

[oobedoob]

by the way, there are some grad programs doing serious audio research, not "gear design" per se, but serious audio research nonetheless....

CCRMA, MIT Media Lab, I think RPI has some psychoacoustics (maybe more related to architecture, though), Fraunhofer is kicking ass right now with the 3-d stuff, and some of the Universities in England/Scotland are still doing audio research, but I can't find them in a quick search right now.

[Class A]

To Answer Q's:

Serious gear means gear that is well designed and used by professionals in the music industry. I guess the emphasis of:

want learn from serious people making serious gear.

would be the "serious people." Ideally I would like to be surrounded by the leading designers in audio technology, though I am willing to cut my teeth someplace where I would be surrounded by people with more experience/knowledge than myself (probably not too hard to find).

I would love to be part of designing the kind of gear that I like to use: API, Rupert Neve, Lexicon, Universal Audio, Emperical Labs, Soundelux, dbx, etc... Basically high end recording/live sound gear.

Hacker type: Yes
I'm a hardware guy, but I'm not afraid of coding (just not as interesting to me, and it seems like everybody does that nowadays ).
I've done designs with discreet transistors, but I have only done a little E&M stuff, and it was hard for me to get excited about (probably due to the instructor).
My senior project is building a highly portable hard disk recorder (a multitracking iPod-type device with wireless mics).
I am designing all of the analog stuff (mic pre, headphone amp, wireless mics, dynamic signal processing, etc...).

In the end, I'm just trying to get my foot in the door someplace.

I've been an Independent Recording/Live engineer in the NW for the last 5 years. I've been working at Supernatural Sound (I also designed their website) and with Horne Audio. Also, the last 3 years I've been going to school at Oregon State University and have been a festival promoter for the last 2.5 years here in Corvallis.

My end goal, for the last 5 years has been to design gear and continue to record music as a hobby. So it seemed like step one would be to get a degree. Now that that is almost finished... I'm searching for step 2.

Thanks Byron, and everyone else for your input on the issue. Keep the advice coming!

Neal

[jajjguy]

Dunno how applicable this will be, but i'll tell you about my experience at RPI, in the Architectural Acoustics program.

First of all, it is primarily architectural acoustics, as oobedoob said, with emphasis on how to build buildings and rooms that sound the way they should.

But we learned a lot of psychoacoustics, especially about spatial hearing, like what the sound has to do to make people perceive it as large and spatial. If you wanted to make reverb and delay type processors, this would be essential. We also did a whole lot of signal processing. Ostensibly, this was for analysis of acoustical measurements in the field (reverberation times of rooms and so forth), but this kind of coding is very similar to what you would do to create a digital reverb, for instance, since it's all about manipulating impulse responses.

Overall, i would not recommend this program for you (since it's not analog gear design) BUT, if you were to go to RPI to study Electrical Engineering (or maybe Materials Science and Engineering), you should definitely, without question, take a course or two in the Architectural Acoustics program. Applied Psychoacoustics and maybe Sonics Research Lab would be good ones to try. (And tell'em Jonah sent you!)

Good luck.

[oobedoob]

Jajj, are you currently employed in an architectural/acoustical/engineering field?

Neal, isn't Tektronix or Intel hiring? Nice compensation, nice o-scopes in the lab, and you'd have the great bennies and some free time to roll your own gear.... There are DIY communities around that have a lot of interesting projects. Nothing the level of Cranesong or Manley but a lot of the classics are covered.... Just an idea.

The companies you mentioned, with the possible exception of the Harman-affiliated ones, are VERY small. (I'm not saying you couldn't get hired there if they had openings, but the odds aren't in your favor). Do you have time to take a semester off and do a co-op (maybe a way to get around the "apprentice" issue, take a little of the pressure off the employer, and learn more about the ins outs and teeny tiny margins of the biz)? Or have you already graduated?

I just cringe at the thought of having to design a part with a $2 BOM cost that's supposed to have -1000dB of noise and perfect isolation from a nuclear explosion.

I used to think I wanted to work for an audio hardware company, and after going on a few interviews, and meeting some of the people, I could see that it was a kind of insular community, and the business wasn't very dynamic or exciting. YMMV.

All that said, I just found another 2 audio companies in my area that are hiring....

[Mr. Dipity]

I would love to be part of designing the kind of gear that I like to use: API, Rupert Neve, Lexicon, Universal Audio, Emperical Labs, Soundelux, dbx, etc... Basically high end recording/live sound gear.

Have you called API, Rupert Neve, Lexicon, Universal Audio, Empirical Labs, Sounddelux, dbx, etc?

If you can get ahold of the actual engineers there (and at the small shops, they will probably be the first person to answer the phone), and ask them what you have asked here, at the very least you'll be getting advice from the people who have already done it, if not starting to get your foot in the door.

Maybe an email introducing yourself, and requesting an informational phone interview is the first step of 'step B'. There are books and books on informational interviewing, that you might want to peruse before you start, too.

[Class A]

sserendipity: I've sent out quite a few emails to most all of the company's on that list with no responses thus far. I think I'll give them a few more days and then do what you suggested, give em a call. Thanks for that!

oobedoob: You bring up some points. Like: Do I really want to work for an audio company? I don't know the answer to that question. I do know that the kind of people I work with is going to be very important to my overall experience. I really like the vibe here at Tapeop. I'm worried that these top-o-the-hill gear folks are going to be too "insular" as you put it. Maybe the best idea for me is to keep my job and my hobby/passion separate in the beginning and try to see if I can merge them somewhere down the road...

So many questions...

Maybe the best solution is to get a Grad. degree in E.E. and get a job making $$$^3 to finance my gear/studio/music dreams. Either way, I'm sure it will work out... It always seems to, one way or another...

What companies in your area are hiring and what is your area(if you don?t mind me asking)?

There is an uncomfortable and often undefined area where reality and dreams meet.
Thanks much for all of your input in the area.

Neal

[Mr. Dipity]

sserendipity: I've sent out quite a few emails to most all of the company's on that list with no responses thus far. I think I'll give them a few more days and then do what you suggested, give em a call. Thanks for that!

They might think you are just fishing for an internship, rather than performing the more intensive process of seriously looking for a way into the business. Also, if you don't email the actual engineers, you are more likely to be blown off; each person who handles it as it percolates down the chain has an opportunity to blow it off, and none of them are going to value your request as much as the actual engineers you need to talk to. And even then, the engineers iare as likely to be harried for time as the next person.

Good luck...

[oobedoob]

umm, don't cold-call an engineer at work if the company is large enough to have a receptionist.

If you call the sales line at Old School and Dale answers the phone, that's okay, but anything more than that prob. isn't a good idea. Cold e-mailing is fine--you'd be surprised at how many people actually read their e-mail (think of all the phishing scams that actually work), but you have to have someone's personal e-mail for it to work.... my2c

[Mr. Dipity]

umm, don't cold-call an engineer at work if the company is large enough to have a receptionist.

If you call the sales line at Old School and Dale answers the phone, that's okay, but anything more than that prob. isn't a good idea. Cold e-mailing is fine--you'd be surprised at how many people actually read their e-mail (think of all the phishing scams that actually work), but you have to have someone's personal e-mail for it to work.... my2c

Yes - I wasn't trying to suggest that you should contact anyone by anything but email or via the official channels to you had their permission and interest - more that you should make it clear that you aren't just looking for a job from them...

[jamoo]

no, school rocks. with a phd i teach 8.75 hours a week and make a killing. i play and record whenever, with whoever i want to and LOVE teaching.
drew

You're lucky! The PhD's I talk to work closer to 60 hours a week or are grossly underemployed, and both groups are underpaid.

Here are paraphrases of things I've heard in the past year:

'Yeah, I'm trying to increase my stipend. I'm barely getting enough to get by and my credit is hosed' (Berkeley, EE) granted, this guy is still technically "in school"

'Sometimes I work 16 - 18 hour days, and every once and a while I get to work on my own writing.' (Sociologist, UCSF) said just yesterday

'I was offered a teaching position in Denmark. I agreed to the amount they promised understanding it was after-tax. Since it wasn't, it just isn't worth it -- I'm not taking the job.' (English, University of Arizona)

'A starting police officer makes more than I do, but I guess the job is a lot riskier than mine.' (Sociologist, wherever)

'They're inducing retirement so they can hire new blood at half the salary' (another Sociologist, wherever)

'Some of my peers resent the fact that I make a couple thousand dollars more than they do. What they don't realize is when they stop working, my workweek goes on for another 10 hours.' (Psychologist, UCSC)

'A lot of the profs around here complain about their salary, but they love the job. Cut their salaries in half and they'd still be here.' (Business, wherever, and a real congenial SOB)

This isn't a paraphrase, but I used to work with an astrophysicist who's job was to sling code at an undergrad software engineer level. I don't know how much he earned, but after years of work he was still heavily burdened by loans. He was hired during the dot-com brain suck (you know, where they were hiring smart people just because they could and because they 'might' need them). He fired during the bust.


Glad to hear someone is living in a better world.

[jamoo]

Re: my above post...

Granted, this is mostly an EE thread and I only mentioned one.

Of course, a lot of EE's are rolling in it and a lot of people with PhD's are so because they have trust funds.

I was just surprised to read something so different than usual.