How many crappy albums have you bought?

[Mark67]

Mostly I am disappointed rather than thinking the album outright sucks.

My latest would be the Arcade Fire. It's really a good, solid album--if you like Echo & the Bunnymen/Joy Division sort of stuff. I don't happen to. Plus it is very repetetive, a lot of the same musical idea. I have tried to listen to it many times now, hoping it will sink in, hoping the hate turns to love, but at some point I realize I am extremely irritated by it.

[JGriffin]

Elliot Smith - either/or (sorry folks)

Stop being on Angel Dust and China White speedballs dwubly. Speed Trials, Ballad of Big Nowt, Between the Bars. Holy Electret Condensors, batfink!! These're some of the best songs EVER!!

For fuck's mustard, Robert, I didn't get all on drmorbius for bashing the Radiohead records, lay off already. Talking to me about best songs ever. You don't even like the Beatles.

[dirty]

dwlb, I won't beat you up for not liking either/or. (But come on!!! Oh, sorry...)

Just recently, I made the mistake of buying the latest from the once mighty Mos Def, whose first is a classic. Wow. Apparently, somebody told him that the Living Colour impersonation was where it's at. Woof.

That said, it's still better than all those Slipknot/Staind/name crappy band here bands...

[JGriffin]

dwlb, I won't beat you up for not liking either/or. (But come on!!! Oh, sorry...)

Eh, it don't bother me none. This is a thread about--basically--"what records did you buy and not like," which you'd think would naturally ruffle some feathers, but no one got bashed for any of it until I mentioned Elliot Smith. I should have known better than to offer a less-than-glowing opinion of TapeOp Dot Com's Sacredest Cow.

[gog]

dwlb, I won't beat you up for not liking either/or. (But come on!!! Oh, sorry...)

Eh, it don't bother me none. This is a thread about--basically--"what records did you buy and not like," which you'd think would naturally ruffle some feathers, but no one got bashed for any of it until I mentioned Elliot Smith. I should have known better than to offer a less-than-glowing opinion of TapeOp Dot Com's Sacredest Cow.

... i don't think anyone had mentioned what is arguably one of the greatest albums in recent history till you mentioned Elliott Smith's either/or as a "crappy album" that you bought. i think that's why feathers got ruffled. of course you are absolutely entitled to your taste, but i don't think you are going to get much support on that statement ANYWHERE, let alone this board. i think i can understand it not being your cup of tea, but crappy album? what do you consider a great record? (besides the obvious Beatles masterpieces, etc)
i am honestly curious, and not trying to bust your chops. i also don't wish to hijack this thread, so i'll leave it alone after this. thanks

[bobbydj]

dwlb, I won't beat you up for not liking either/or. (But come on!!! Oh, sorry...)

Eh, it don't bother me none. This is a thread about--basically--"what records did you buy and not like," which you'd think would naturally ruffle some feathers, but no one got bashed for any of it until I mentioned Elliot Smith. I should have known better than to offer a less-than-glowing opinion of TapeOp Dot Com's Sacredest Cow.

Not at all. There's a lot of ES I don't like. But that one just always struck me as having some of the best songs on it. Some not so good too, of course. Still, you're into Marillion so yeah. Your criteria will be...how can I put this. "Different," shall we say.

[JGriffin]

... i don't think anyone had mentioned what is arguably one of the greatest albums in recent history till you mentioned Elliott Smith's either/or as a "crappy album" that you bought. i think that's why feathers got ruffled. of course you are absolutely entitled to your taste, but i don't think you are going to get much support on that statement ANYWHERE, let alone this board. i think i can understand it not being your cup of tea, but crappy album? what do you consider a great record? (besides the obvious Beatles masterpieces, etc)
i am honestly curious, and not trying to bust your chops. i also don't wish to hijack this thread, so i'll leave it alone after this. thanks

Well, I guess the key word is "arguably." I'm sure plenty of people hold that opinion about that record, and plenty do not. I've met plenty of people who think "Sergeant Pepper's" is completely overrated, and that makes critics' top five lists all the time. (I see Beatle-bashing on this board all the time, and it generally goes unchallenged. But don't you dare slag off our boy Elliot!) As to where I might get support for a low opinion of an Elliot Smith record--I know I won't get it here, but ANYWHERE? I think you're overestimating Smith's impact. Prior to his regrettable and untimely death, of course. Now you can't pick up a music magazine without reading about him. Had he not died I have a feeling he would have remained a genre hero and that's about it. Most people I know have never heard of him.

Not to be chop-busting either, but where is the line between "not my cup of tea" and "this is crappy?" Can we trust ourselves to be that objective about something that is really very subjective?

Thanks for asking about what albums I think are great--far too often I find myself in discussions about bands or albums and I don't know what the other person thinks is good music. It'd be helpful if folks who posted their list of crappy albums also talked about what they thought was good; perhaps we take it for granted that everyone on the board shares our tastes. And maybe for some of you that's true, and this board is more homogenized than I thought, and I'm odd man out. At the risk of inviting comments along the lines of "well, no wonder" (hi Bobby), a list of non-Beatle albums I think are great would include--

OK Computer - Radiohead
Soft Bulletin - Flaming Lips
Cruel Inventions - Sam Phillips
Aqualung - Jethro Tull
Phantom Power - Tragically Hip
Steely Dan - Aja
Wilco -Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
Marillion - Clutching at Straws
Sting -The Soul Cages
Absolutely Free - Frank Zappa and the Mothers

[JGriffin]

Still, you're into Marillion so yeah. Your criteria will be...how can I put this. "Different," shall we say.

Well, yes. See above. And I'd echo your sentiments about ES back at you--there's LOTS of Marillion I really don't like, and some of their biggest-selling records (the ones you're likely actually familiar with) I find almost unlistenable. But the stuff I do like, I think is really quite excellent. And I am occasionally puzzled as to why other folk don't feel the same way, but I'm rarely aghast when someone says they think Marillion are crappy. Perhaps I'm just used to it.

[gog]

Not to be chop-busting either, but where is the line between "not my cup of tea" and "this is crappy?" Can we trust ourselves to be that objective about something that is really very subjective?

albums I think are great are:

OK Computer - Radiohead
Soft Bulletin - Flaming Lips
Cruel Inventions - Sam Phillips
Aqualung - Jethro Tull
Phantom Power - Tragically Hip
Steely Dan - Aja
Wilco -Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
Marillion - Clutching at Straws
Sting -The Soul Cages
Absolutely Free - Frank Zappa and the Mothers

ok, here's my take on objectivity/subjectivity in music and "not my cup of tea" vs. "crappy record". i for one can dislike an album that is really well done and an excellent representation of an artist's vision, but that doesn't make it a crappy record. i don't like marillion or sting at all, but i have to admit they are talented artists who do what they do well... even if i hate it. i realize this may sound like splitting hairs, but i think that's the best i can explain my take on it.
for the record, i am a songwriter who is completely enamored with the craft and all the subtleties therein. elliott reperesented the whole ball of wax to me as far as someone who did it all so well (melodies, lyrics, structure, harmony, etc). to me and many other songwriters out there, he was the best we had in recent years, and either/or was his finest work. I may be wrong, but i think it will stand the test of time as a great record, irregardless of how or when he died.
i apologize for letting my personal taste get ruffled. either/or is one of my "desert island" records, and i couldn't help defending it. i think little discussions like this are good for helping us reaffirm what we consider valuable art, and i meant no disrespect of your personal taste... really.
now go give elliott another listen

[Knights Who Say Neve]

Er...I'm totally indifferent to Elliot Smith. His untimely death doesn't change that. Anymore than I started liking Nirvana after Kurt did himself, or the Plasmatics after Wendy O blew her brains out on her front lawn (a performance artist to the very end)- you get the idea. Martyr status aside, his music's just boring. To me. And I'm not asking you to like what I like, so...you go ahead and like Elliot Smith or any other dead rock star. But don't expect me to suddenly give lip service to his alleged "genius".

Of course, if you liked him before he died, ignore this entire post.

(added): Gog- I take your point. There are records I like and records I respect without likeing. Unfortunately Elliot Smith is neither of those for me, but I imagine if someone I kenw personally tried to "convert" me to the cause of Elliot Smith I'd see the craftsmanship, if nothing else. This is not a reply to anyone in particular. It's just a rant about bandwagoning fans who deify dead artists and ignore the live ones who could actually use the support. HOWbout a crusade for an obscure artist who can still spend the money? Hmm?

But don't do it on this thread. ;-)

[apropos of nothing]

Hey! knock it off with the Elliot Smith Crussades! My thread! Knock it off!



To be perfectly honest, I started this thread to point out some of the positive effects that mp3/whatever other crappy codec has accomplished. Namely that a lot of people don't end up buying crappy albums as often as they used to in the pre-mp3 era.

...Which is not to rip on the folks who still do, cuz hey, with a nick like mine, I gotta get behind the random CD/vinyl/cassette purchase. Even if you get nine that suck, hopefully that tenth is killer and something you never would have heard otherwise.


Maybe I'll do an underground Elliot Smith remix album and circulate it just to piss everybody off. Hee hee.

[Tim Casey]

The money doesn't bother me as much as the waste of time. Life's too short for mediocre music.

[Greenlander]

Just recently, I made the mistake of buying the latest from the once mighty Mos Def, whose first is a classic. Wow. Apparently, somebody told him that the Living Colour impersonation was where it's at.

Hey! Lay off Living Colour.

[gog]

Er...I'm totally indifferent to Elliot Smith. His untimely death doesn't change that. Anymore than I started liking Nirvana after Kurt did himself, or the Plasmatics after Wendy O blew her brains out on her front lawn (a performance artist to the very end)- you get the idea. Martyr status aside, his music's just boring. To me. And I'm not asking you to like what I like, so...you go ahead and like Elliot Smith or any other dead rock star. But don't expect me to suddenly give lip service to his alleged "genius".

Of course, if you liked him before he died, ignore this entire post.

... this is just silly, and you missed the point i was trying to make (no one was talking about his death as a factor of any kind). i apologize for adding to the hijacking of this thread and will let it be. FYI: i've liked elliott's stuff since the heatmiser days, and i'm actually not a huge fan of his last three solo records... just the first three.

i agree that the web and the ability to listen or download stuff online has helped me find stuff i dig and helped me avoid stuff i don't. i guess as much as I (we) like to think there may be a "universal" standard of sorts when it comes to quality music, it really is a completely subjective thing. if it sounds good to you, then it's good, no matter what anyone says.
peace... i'm outa here

[JGriffin]

ok, here's my take on objectivity/subjectivity in music and "not my cup of tea" vs. "crappy record". i for one can dislike an album that is really well done and an excellent representation of an artist's vision, but that doesn't make it a crappy record. i don't like marillion or sting at all, but i have to admit they are talented artists who do what they do well... even if i hate it. i realize this may sound like splitting hairs, but i think that's the best i can explain my take on it.
for the record, i am a songwriter who is completely enamored with the craft and all the subtleties therein. elliott reperesented the whole ball of wax to me as far as someone who did it all so well (melodies, lyrics, structure, harmony, etc). to me and many other songwriters out there, he was the best we had in recent years, and either/or was his finest work. I may be wrong, but i think it will stand the test of time as a great record, irregardless of how or when he died.
i apologize for letting my personal taste get ruffled. either/or is one of my "desert island" records, and i couldn't help defending it. i think little discussions like this are good for helping us reaffirm what we consider valuable art, and i meant no disrespect of your personal taste... really.
now go give elliott another listen

All excellent points, and no apologies are needed. I never took offense at anything you said. I hope that I never gave offense. If I did, I apologize as well. I can be a bit of an asshole sometimes. And yeah, I am gonna go revisit Smith as a result of this thread. Take care.